Hypnogogic onset, mental screen

In beginning a LD induction, these are my most common patterns of phenomena: lay on back totally still, close eyes, observe hypnogogic shapes or images. This transforms into a kind of mental screen. I feel fixed, locked into it, total blackness, like a large spacial volume that suddenly opens up and I am an I that is witnessing it. This lasts some seconds, if a spark of light appears, I can gaze at it, and be pulled into a LD scenario. My question is what is the name of this black screen, does anyone know? I am using the name “mental screen” borrowing it from Silva Mind Control, for lack of a better description, but possibly it is not the same thing.


From being awake into lucidity? WILD. Are you doing this frequently?

1 Like

I had taken an intentional hiatus from setting up Ldreaming because of a serious need to ground myself. Insomnia polished off the coup. But now I have returned to the cultivation of dreaming and realize that this NC community is the sangha that can help keep it all straight. So, yes, I used at that time WILD as well as a method of intermittent timed disruption of early morning sleep. A timer would beep softly every 5, 10, 20 etc. minutes, enough to rouse me to be slightly aware in WPR and invite the LD. For now, my approach is different. At sleep onset, focus hypnogogia and extend the stability time of the screen. So, my question is, is there a name for this screen, either in sleep awareness or in meditation?


It’s also like the visual shift lock that you feel when you practice body asleep/mind awake

I have no clue, but this is a perfect question to ask Andrew during one of the Thursday Q&A sessions or even during one of his Book Club webinars, held on alternate Thursdays. However, he will be leading a retreat for the next week, so won’t be available till September. Your experience, and question is exactly what he likes to hear and respond to during these webinars.


From my understanding, a buddhist would call this screen “Kunzhi Namshe” (base of all).
This is the store house consciousness in which all karmic traces are stored and is the “space”/“screen” in which the dream unfolds in a process of consciousness illuminating these karmic traces and connecting and interpreting them as a dream story.


Thank you for the suggestion. If I can get into a webinar, I will do that

1 Like

This sounds very important, on the level of an attainment. In my thoughts, I don’t think that this could be what I am getting access into, it seems too grand for my experience. Have you , @KhyungMar, accessed this state in the onset of entering into LD imagery?

1 Like

I wonder what you mean by this? Is it different from the space you are already in just by closing your eyes? And, why do you want a name? Is it so you can look it up and learn more about it?

Is it something more than an expanding of your awareness beyond your usual gross conceptual mind, or just this? Do you meditate?

Also, if you have any tips on not simply dropping off into the sleep of ignorance, please share. I am trying to learn this myself.

Hi @Davjak, this is not the vague darkness that we experience when closing our eyes. It is a defined shift into a black spacial territory. When you arrive into it, you recognize that you are there. (It doesn’t stay around long for me - yet). It is pleasant, the body is most likely asleep, and I have had this accompanied with sleep paralysis, and the aforementioned spark of light, which I also enjoy, because then almost always I am ushered into the LD space, if I don’t ruin it by moving to try to relieve the uncomfortable rush of heat. Another subject to write about at some point.
I prefer to know the names of these occurrences. These are subtle, often new experiences, and it is just a lot easier to have the most exact vocabulary possible to learn and share. And have conversations like this.
Yes, I meditate. Shamatha, Vipassana. As an insomniac, often at strange hours too, 2, 3am.
I think dropping into the Sleep of Ignorance with its fragments of ordinary dreams is a normal occurrence until we hone our awareness skills. I certainly end up there every, for most of, if not the entire night. It is as if we just don’t have enough mental strength to maintain awareness and we just relax and sink into this default zone.

With your further explanation of your experience given to davjak, I would think that it sounds like you “locked” onto the spaciousness aspect during meditation.
When the body becomes very still - either during sitting meditation or in shavasana position - the meditator may manage to relax consciously into a high degree of stillness of the body, thereby entering one of the so called “three doors” (as in tibetan buddhist tradition). Experience is usually that the boundaries of the body dissolve, sometimes to the point that either the body feels huge or one feels one is (in) a giant sphere of spaciousness. Spaciousness is one of the experiential qualities of rigpa. If the meditator can remain stable in this state without effort, eventually the other aspect of rigpa will surface naturally: clarity. The experience of the state of rigpa is a balance of both: spaciousness and clarity. If the meditator focuses too strongly on relaxation, clarity will not arise and experience can become either dull or one loses oneself in the imagery induced by the subtle movements of the mind.
Does that somewhat fit to your experience?

1 Like

How do you like Silvas work? i ordered his book from the library a couple weeks ago, but its been a long wait, i think the waiting list is long, which makes me think his work must be pretty good.

not sure the name of the screen, but Imam interested as well in knowing what it is called.

I also am really curious to know if different peoples mentalscreens are different. You discribed yours as completely Black. Mine is very dark, but loaded with sublte light and subtle colors. Its like a black plasma, with faint purple and blue, and cloudy faint light.

Not the best discription, its really difficult to articulate the details.

I think that might be what it is. Does the spaciousness aspect of Rigpa have a name, I wonder? My reference books on Tibetan Buddhism and lucid dreaming are out of reach until next month, and I will continue to Investigate about Rigpa online in the meantime. The awakening into lucidity practice is a kind of journey with sign posts along the way, that provoke us to continue on the path and not get lost in these territories that are often quite difficult to access. This is just one sign in the process, something recognizable to me, it comes and goes in meditation and in lucid dream practice. In my case, definitely unstable.

1 Like

I don’t know much about Silva Mind Control, but it’s the only source that I know of, off hand, that refers to the Mental Screen. I just checked out on YouTube about SMC, there are lots of videos you might want to look at until your book arrives. I plan to view some, myself. It looks like a worthy system. I am thinking that these practices that employ visualization can also feed into our LD/yoga work. Also thinking that “trataka” could be another great supplementary system to work with to enhance our hyperreal visual skills for dream practice.

1 Like

The nighttime mental screen for me begins with hypnogogic imagery, breaks down into the swirls or clouds of subtle coloration or grey, then becomes all black and perhaps the point of light. In meditation, the mental screen can be dark red (if it is daylight) but no point of light. It does not transform into LD experience, or maybe in this case, vision or visual hallucination as I would be in waking consciousness. My experiences anyway so far.

1 Like

" just checked out on YouTube about SMC, there are lots of videos you might want to look at until your book arrives. I plan to view some, myself. It looks like a worthy system. I am thinking that these practices that employ visualization can also feed into our LD/yoga work."

Thank you, I didnt even think to do a search for those videos on youtube, how ironic, the way Imheard about the SMC method was in a youtube add for Mindvalley which has a course on it. I figured I would check out the book first , to,see how good it was (much better than spending $500 on the course, and finding out the information is stuff you have already learned, or defectice, etc)

I will check out those vids, if you find some that are helpful, please share them here, I will do the same.

I agree, I heard that the course is too expensive, one common complaint about it. I think one can pick it up oneself, from the book, YouTube etc. Not sure how to link information yet 'cause I’m new around here, but will do my best to send u anything that I deem noteworthy :slightly_smiling_face:

1 Like

i was able to find this video of his book:

I am not sure if it is the actual book being read, or something else. I listened to about 30min of it yesterday, it sounds like an AI computer reading the text, but with a human voice. (because the narrator reads the page numbers in a wierd way).

Will send more when i find good ones. Thank you for your help :slight_smile:

1 Like

Thx a lot @NightHawk999
I have listened to part of it and even began some of the visualization and manifestation exercises. I am sure it all feeds into our common purpose. It’s quite fun!
The AI component is fascinating, practically human, but a few pronunciation word endings give it away as well as the page # thing that you mentioned.
I realize already that the SMC screen is not the same as the spacial screen that I mention and which you seem to experience too. It could be Rigpa, as @KhyingMar suggests or perhaps a short visit to the first Shamatha jhana?

1 Like

I am sure, but @KhyungMar s explanation makes a lot of sense to me.

That screen reminds me of a fluid Pointilism painting, but with blackness and countless tiny subtle light points. I have sometimes wondered if those dots were the souls of living beings in the collective consciousness, and we see it as a birds eye view looking at it from a distance. Who knows? I think science says they are the rods and cones of cells that prodce the color, or something like that, but again, who knows?

I definitely agree with you that the AI is remarkably real, I was pretty blown away by that.