🌟 Sacred Teachings

[NightHawk999]

@fenwizard

Yes, but if we are “all one” then what is “their consciousness?”
Ultimately it’s all one consciousness.

That would be a good question to ask Master H. Way above my knowledge or expertise.

@fenwizard

. Some may call it “God” or “Atman” and then there is the Ground of Being that it all grows out of. Hindus would call it Brahman. The Lakota call it “Wakantanka” or “Great Sacred Mystery.” So ultimately we are all One. If you go down the branches, there are clusters of incarnations that we would call a soul that is reincarnating.

Add Great Spirit and Hidden Essence to the list.

[fenwizard]

Yes, “Great Spirit” is a translation of the Lakota “Wakantanka.” I’ve been told that a better translation is “Great Sacred Mystery.” Something that is “Wakan” is “sacred and mysterious.”

[NightHawk999]

@fenwizard

“Great Sacred Mystery.” Something that is “Wakan” is “sacred and mysterious.”

I much prefer these translations.

It goes back to what some Christians have said that God is both partly knowable, and beyond all comprehension.

I prefer this view.

I also believe there is a distinction from souls and God, but they are both made of the same ‘material’ (immaterial?!?!?"

I am not that advanced Spiritually to have the answers, but I really hope one day I will have a better grasp.

I do believe in a Heaven and Hell, or multiple layers of Heaven and Hell. I also believe God permeats all things, inclduing hell, but that doesnt mean that Hell is God. Just that it exists in his ‘Kingdom’.

Just like the dog shit on the sidewalk exists in his Kingdom, but that does not mean the shit is God. Just that He is so compassionate he gives Space for its existence.

Tough questions, the deeper I dive, the less certain I am that I have found the answers.

[fenwizard]

Look deeply at fractal tree branching

Why trees look like rivers and also blood vessels and also lightning…

Branching Fractals

[NightHawk999]

Mandelbrot Zoom Sequence

Mandelbrot Zoom Sequence

The Mandelbrot Set - Numberphile

The Mandelbrot Set - Numberphile

Mandelbrot’s Evil Twin

Mandelbrot's Evil Twin

Deepest Mandelbrot Set Zoom Animation ever - a New Record! 10^275 (2.1E275 or 2^915)

Deepest Mandelbrot Set Zoom Animation ever - a New Record! 10^275 (2.1E275 or 2^915)

Maths certainly point to God being the best mathematician

Fractals in Nature

Fractals in Nature

[fenwizard]

Sorry bro, but I think that the “God” word is problematic. That’s why I prefer to drop it. That’s why the Buddha dropped it. It carries too much baggage. If so-called “God” is infinite, then it’s Everywhere and Everything. Even in the dog shit. It’s all sacred. Even shit is sacred. That doesn’t mean that you put it on your altar and pray to it. But it makes good compost. It’s all “good shit” bro. Everything has a place. Even the devils are sacred. Even Hitler. Some souls have just forgotten and lost there way. I think that’s what “the Fall” is in Judeo-Christian mythology. It’s the fall into ego and forgetting who you really are. Some of the Christian mystics got it. They talked about the ultimate mystery as a “Cloud of Unknowing.” When San Juan dela Cruz talked about “the Dark Night of the Soul” he wasn’t just talking about going through a tough depression (that’s the way a lot of folks use that term now). He was talking about loosing all of his previous images and concepts of God. Previously he meditated in a way where he visualized Jesus and talked with him and had a loving relationship. Then suddenly that all fell away and he was left in the dark. It was all a Great Dark Mystery. Quite upsetting at first until he finally got it! Great Mystery! This is called “the Via Negativa” or path of negation. Negating all images and concepts of so-called “God.” But the other side of the coin is the “Via Positiva” where one sees “God” in everything.
And in the Hindu tradition, Brahman is also beyond all concepts and forms but manifests as Atman or the eternal Soul. And is in everything. In the Tao te Ching it’s written that “the Tao that can be spoken (put into words and concepts) is not the True Tao.”
p.s. Jesus, Buddha and Mary, I should write a book about this!

[NightHawk999]

@fenwizard

but I think that the “God” word is problematic. T

Not if you approach it with openness and Christ Love.

@fenwizard

That’s why the Buddha dropped it.

He didnt. He never addressed the topic. He taught the 4 noble truths, and the path out of suffering, allowing the students to judge for themselves after enlightenment, whether God existed or not.

[NightHawk999]

@fenwizard

That doesn’t mean that you put it on your altar and pray to it.

Im pretty sure if you are putting it in the toilet, and not on the alter, it might not be as sacred as you think.

Dog shit decays.
God is immortal.

Being omnipresent, doesn’t mean God is the dog shit, but it may mean that the dog shit has some access to consciousness or Awareness (before it demanifests, I dont know if dog shit has a soul, maybe?)

[fenwizard]

I have a different opinion on this and so do many of the Buddhist scholars that I’ve read. He didn’t use the term “God” because we have too many limiting concepts and baggage around the word.
Even more so in the West. When I say “God” many people, for instance picture a particular concept or image. Many people picture a judgemental male King or Judge on a throne (roots in ancient Hebrew monarchies) who is quick to throw you into hell or punish. Others may picture Jesus. Better perhaps, but still male and a limited human form. These are archetypal images, which have their place in the human psyche, but they are not ultimate Truth and Mystery which is beyond language. Instead of talking about “God” as the ultimate Truth, he talks about “emptiness.” The Gnostics talked about the “Pleroma” which can be translated as “fullness.” Quantum physics says that all of the particles (which are also waves) arise from empty space which is also full of energy. Empty/fullness.

Ginsberg- "Holy"

Allen Ginzburg got it in his poem “Howl.” Here’s a great theatrical portrayal of him reading this part that describes the Great Mystery as “Holy.”

[fenwizard]

p.s. I’ve picked up that you have a Christian side. I came out of that tradition and the Christian mystics (as well as Jung) were the beginning of my journey beyond traditional Christian theology. Read “The Cloud of Unknowing” and “The Dark Night of the Soul.” Also Meister Eckhart got it. Also Zen Master D.T. Suzuki’s “Emptiness: Christian and Zen.” And Thomas Merton’s writings on Zen.

[NightHawk999]

@fenwizard

p.s. I’ve picked up that you have a Christian side.

I have an open Heart and an open mind and a deep respect for most of the major, time tested (1000+ years), faiths.

The deeper I dive into them, the more my mind gets blown.

[fenwizard]

Open Mind+Open Heart= Great Wisdom/Compassion.

In Zen they say, “Zen Mind, Beginner’s Mind.” That means drop all of the old concepts and be open to what is right there in front of our noses all of the time!
Jesus said “You must become like a Child to enter the Kingdom of God . . . or Emptiness, or Whatever.” (from the Fenwizard Revised Version )

[NightHawk999]

@fenwizard

When I say “God” many people, for instance picture a particular concept or image. Many people picture a judgemental male King or Judge on a throne (roots in ancient Hebrew monarchies) who is quick to throw you into hell or punish.

Yes, and I think this is a gross miscarriage of the faiths teachings.

Small minds live in the world of concepts, God is beyond concepts. I dont like these minimized views of God any more than you do, but I can see how its a stepping stone map, and the deeper you dive in a faith, the better the quality the map gets. But the map is never the territory:

This is why Buddha said something like once you cross the river, you can destroy the boat. The teachings cant do justice to the final realization/[destination].

[NightHawk999]

@fenwizard

In Zen they say, “Zen Mind, Beginner’s Mind.” That means drop all of the old concepts and be open to what is right there in front of our noses all of the time!

Amen Brother

@fenwizard

Jesus said “You must become like a Child to enter the Kingdom of God . .

Amen Brother

@fenwizard

or Emptiness, or Whatever.”

small edit:
or infinite Emptiness AND infinite Light

[fenwizard]

Agreed!

Many people are athiests because they can’t accept this limiting judgemental view of “God.” I tell them, yeah, I don’t believe in that god either. Neither did Buddha. The Buddhists got driven from India by the way, because when the Muslims invaded they hated the Buddhists the worst for being 'atheists." That’s why there are hardly any Buddhists still in India. (Except now Tibetans have returned Buddhism to the part of India where they live). The Muslims destoyed Nalanda, the Great Buddhist University!
In my opinion, the Fundamentalist branches of all of the religions don’t really get it and just perpetrate trauma and ignorance. The mystics in all of the religions get that it’s a Mystery (with many names) and that it’s all about Love and Compassion.

[NightHawk999]

@fenwizard

The Buddhists got driven from India by the way, because when the Muslims invaded they hated the Buddhists the worst for being 'atheists."

Or for being Polytheists (101 Gods and Goddesses). Im not a Historian, but I can see either of these views as being upsetting to the Muslims back then.

Have you prayed in a Mosque before?

A fun homework assignment for you may be to write out the 99 names of Allah, and multiple English translations for each.

I dont want to spoil the surprise, but if you approach it with:

@fenwizard

Love and Compassion.

I think you may find that the Buddhists and Muslims have more in common with their beliefs than most people think.

[fenwizard]

The Sufi’s get it. The mystics in all of the traditions get it.
I have a friend who is a Sufi in Seattle and he is under a particular lineage from Turkey. He invited me to some all day Zikr ceremonies that involve singing, chanting, movement and meditation. At one of these events, all of the different Sufi lineages in Seattle came together and each shared their particular Zikr. Of note, were a group of African Sufis from Somalia who shared their traditional Zikr. Part of what we did with them was the traditional bowing towards Mecca. That’s the closest I’ve come to praying in a Mosque. If it’s about Love & the Great Mystery, then it’s Divine. If it’s about hatred and intolerance, then it’s about ego. And ego leads to evil. I don’t care if it’s ISIS or Medieval Christan Crusaders. Evil shit! If it’s not about Love, it’s not about “God.”
p.s. My Sufi friend also goes to Buddhist Vipassana retreats, and we’ve been in peyote meetings and ayahuasca ceremonies together. He sees no conflict with any of it.

[NightHawk999]

@fenwizard

In my opinion, the Fundamentalist branches of all of the religions don’t really get it

I was talking with a Muslim guy once, and he said something really beautiful:

‘The religion is pure, but people defile it.’

Dont let small minded people and their perverted concepts of any faith make you throw the ‘Baby’ out with the bathwater…

[NightHawk999]

@fenwizard

The Sufi’s get it. The mystics in all of the traditions get it.
I have a friend who is a Sufi in Seattle and he is under a particular lineage from Turkey. He invited me to some all day Zikr ceremonies that involve singing, chanting, movement and meditation.

I have been wanting to learn more about Sufi beliefs, tough to find good resources on this.

@fenwizard

Part of what we did with them was the traditional bowing towards Mecca. That’s the closest I’ve come to praying in a Mosque.

Beautiful, LOVE that you were able to pray with them.

The reason I asked, was in the Mosque they have a section dedicated to God, but no statues or depictions! This is such a beautiful way to show that God is beyond concepts.

[fenwizard]

My brother, by the way, is a Christian minister in a multi-racial Christian church in L.A. He’s also a Christian mystic who practices Christian meditation. He tells me that he thinks you should start with your own tradition before you go off to other traditions, like Merton exploring Buddhism. I tell him, yeah, I did start out in my own tradition. I spent many years reading the Christian mystics and doing Christian meditation practices. But I got to the point where my soul was restless and I needed to branch out and explore other traditions and practices. If you still get nurtured by going to Church, then go for it. When I try going to Church these days, it just bores me. yeah I can meditate there. But I can meditate better at home or in nature. Just where I’m at now. I also have a work schedule where I see clients in the evening, so hard to commit to the schedule of any Sangha or tradition. Maybe someday I will find my Sangha and be able to stick to a tradition. But my soul is also drawn to learning from many traditions and integrating truths.