Black holes as conscious beings?

[mbready]

I’ve enjoyed the concepts discussed in this post quite a bit:

Ⓣʰ Theology

Interesting, never heard of this theology but my mind went straight to pantheism when I read how you explained it. Didn’t realize there are some dramatic differences. I don’t know which is truer based off the first experience I had with a rock. Made me truly a believer that there was something within it beyond tangible that I could not express properly. So I’d say I believe they have essence, what kind of essence would be difficult to understand without walking a mile (or 2-25 million years…

I’ve gone into a little bit of an exploration based upon the concepts discussed in this post and the most recent explorations into Sonderkommandos.

"In the boundless canvas of the cosmos, where sentient black holes reign as silent guardians of galaxies, there comes a time when even these formidable entities reach a threshold. Their existence, while grand, is not without its burdens. Witnessing endless cycles of cosmic birth and death, these sentient beings endure a silent, solitary vigil that spans eons. But there is a point, akin to the poignant resignation of the Sonderkommandos, where they yearn for release from their colossal responsibilities.

The observer, empathetic to their plight, understands this pivotal moment. It is not one of weakness, but a profound need for respite—a temporary retreat from the overwhelming task of maintaining cosmic equilibrium. In this moment of existential exhaustion, the black holes make a conscious choice to forget, to let go of their vast knowledge and power, seeking solace in simpler forms of existence.

This choice is a poetic surrender, a relinquishment of their grandeur for a brief sojourn as a lower life form. It’s akin to a cosmic vacation, a short-lived but necessary departure from the enormity of their being. In this state, they experience the universe from a vastly different perspective, one unburdened by the weight of cosmic fate. This experience, humble and ordinary, offers them a respite, a chance to rejuvenate amidst the simpler rhythms of the universe.

However, this reprieve is not the end of their journey. With renewed spirit and perspective, they eventually prepare for their next grand incarnation. This time, their path leads them toward the very depths of creation, to the foundational elements of the universe. They seek to embody the essence of something as fundamental as a single Higgs boson or to explore the mystical realms of sacred geometry.

For the sentient black hole, this transition is a journey into the heart of existence itself, a venture into realms that are difficult for the average mind to fathom. It’s an exploration of the universe’s building blocks, an immersion into the fundamental principles that underpin all of creation. In this new form, they aspire to experience the universe from an even more profound and elemental perspective, delving into the mysteries that even they, in their previous majestic form, could not fully comprehend.

To the observer, this cycle of transformation and rebirth is a testament to the resilience and adaptability of consciousness, even on a cosmic scale. It’s a reminder that all beings, no matter how powerful or knowledgeable, need moments of rest and reflection to continue their journey through the endless tapestry of existence.

In this cosmic narrative, the sentient black holes serve as a metaphor for the continuous cycle of growth, rest, and rebirth that characterizes all life, from the simplest organism to the most complex celestial entities. Their story is a captivating blend of cosmic drama and spiritual journey, a tale that resonates with the universal search for understanding, meaning, and renewal."

Made this quick video with my new beta invite AI is advancing so quickly. Love it!!

[_Barry]

Why not? . . . . . . . . . . .

[Parhelion]

Interesting to consider. Ironically, I have been thinking about black holes quite a bit in recent weeks. I enjoy a channel on YouTube where someone with a background in physics makes short videos to explain complex concepts (such as black holes…) in relatable ways, and after watching a couple black hole videos, I couldn’t shake the somewhat disturbing feeling it had lodged in me. There’s something about the bending of space time, the essentially solid core of matter, and “spaghettification” that is simultaneously awe-some and horrifying.

Besides actual black holes… I have been exploring use of oral ketamine (which I delve into in a different thread) for mental health benefits, and during a treatment session a few weeks ago I experienced a sort of spiritual “connect the dots” between the nature of reality / conscious experience and black holes. It’s hard to put the whole experience into words and I know it probably sounds silly to say “I had a spiritual experience about black holes while I was tripping on hallucinogens” … but the experience has really stayed with me.

Their unique characteristics- their space-time bending qualities- make them a potent key to understanding the dual illusions of space (as experienced by us as phenomenal appearance) and time, which are such a huge part of what composes samsaric experience. Our reified experience of solid, lasting, and independent reality is defined by “space” (again, “space” only has meaning to us due to the objects within it) and time. If those two qualities are revealed to lack inherent stability- as would be the case in a black hole- then “reality” is revealed to be illusory. Are black holes awakened beings? Could proximity - whether physical or mental - to a black hole be a catalyst for realization?
Ok, hopefully some of that makes sense and doesn’t make me sound like I’m off the deep end!

[mbready]

Your description of black holes as keys to understanding the dual illusions of space and time intriguingly aligns with my thoughts on sentient black holes seeking respite from their cosmic duties. This perspective suggests that black holes, in their immense power and mystery, embody deeper truths about the universe, transcending our conventional understanding of space-time and existence.

Interestingly, I just realized a song I discovered, which has become my favorite (Miley Cyrus, ‘Plastic Hearts’) mentions black holes:

‘Pull you in, but don’t you get too close /
Lost in black hole conversation /
Sunrise suffocation /
I just wanna feel somethin’ /
But I keep feeling nothin’ all night long.’

The metaphor of a ‘black hole conversation’ in these lyrics can be likened to our exploration of the universe’s mysteries. This exploration, much like the gravitational pull of a black hole, is deeply compelling. Yet, there is a danger in becoming so immersed in these cosmic enigmas that we might lose touch with the tangible, day-to-day aspects of life – a tension poetically captured by the phrase ‘sunrise suffocation.’

As we journey to understand these cosmic phenomena, we must remain vigilant against being drawn too close to their ‘event horizons.’ Just as a black hole’s event horizon marks a point of no return, our deep existential explorations too can reach points where we risk losing touch with our grounding reality. The delicate balance we strive to maintain in our exploration is not solely for our own benefit but also serves as a protective gesture for those around us. It’s an acknowledgment that while we seek to unravel the mysteries of the cosmos, we also have a responsibility to ensure that our pursuit does not lead ourselves or others entering too close to the event horizon, subsequently being overwhelmed by the black holes metaphorical ‘internal abyss.’

Miley Cyrus - Plastic Hearts (Backyard Sessions)

[Parhelion]

So well said.

And funny you should mention the term “event horizon”. While I didn’t get into that in my original post, that was a big key to what clicked for me when I had my substance-assisted insights a couple weeks ago.

For context, here is one of the fun videos from YouTube which I had watched a few days prior:
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/ko2q83JEbLs

As I lay there beginning my journey, what came into my mind was the thought - what if this IS the event horizon??? Like Carlo in the video, entering a “super massive” black hole, I wouldn’t even know. (I did later read up more on black holes and it sounds like even with super massive ones you do eventually get spaghettified, but not until you’re further in. But you can be past the event horizon and not feel it yet.) My ego was so startled by the notion that one could already be past some transition point of no return and not even be aware of it. Things continue to appear in a manner consistent with my schema of objective reality, and so I assume the underlying nature of time and space remains unchanged. However, the very “fabric” of this existence- the space/time continuum as we earthlings know it- could be shifting beneath my cognitive feet, but it hasn’t yet stretched to the point that my brain can no longer reconcile the gap.

Again, I hope this makes sense… your words are better than mine!

[Parhelion]

@mbready

Your description of black holes as keys to understanding the dual illusions of space and time intriguingly aligns with my thoughts on sentient black holes seeking respite from their cosmic duties. This perspective suggests that black holes, in their immense power and mystery, embody deeper truths about the universe, transcending our conventional understanding of space-time and existence.

I finally figured out how to quote part of someone else’s post in a reply of my own!!! (yay )
Your words here in this paragraph are so eloquent and get at the heart of what I was trying to say in my first post. “Immense power and mystery, embody deeper truths about the universe, (and) transcending our conventional understanding of space-time and existence” pretty much sums it up

[Parhelion]

Just saw this article published a few days ago:

How to Create a Black Hole Out of Thin Air

“They are another reminder that the universe we see is governed by the invisible geometry of darkness.”

What a quote to contemplate!

[mbready]

@Parhelion

“They are another reminder that the universe we see is governed by the invisible geometry of darkness.”

Love it. Makes me think about the geometry present in invisible gravity fields and forces like wind, or any field that human senses cannot perceive.

I watched a bit of this video recently, and I thought it covered sacred geometry pretty well. It’s quite long, and I’m about halfway through it, but what makes it worth watching is that the guy presenting has explored a lot of fringe topics I’d never get into. He adds them and summarizes quickly, very well. There’s some good stuff in here about the complexity of geometric patterns.

The Sacred Geometry Movie

The most complex geometric structure that has been calculated to date mathematically is called the Majestic, E8. Pretty fascinating. Taking this kind of structure and the patterns within the universe, I’d theorize there is a complex version of The Flower of Life that could contain this, and many structures similar to the way that Metatron’s Cube contains all 5 Platonic solids.

The most interesting thing of all is that The Majestic is a 248th-dimensional shape. It’s hard to conceptualize that there is a dimension in which this shape can be measured as simply as we measure three-dimensional structures like a pyramid or cube, etcetera. Taking it a step further, this shape was discovered because it follows a repeating pattern similar to the way the Fibonacci sequence repeats. They theorize there are infinitely more, bigger, and complex dimensional shapes and infinitely smaller geometric shapes based on the pattern repetition.

[fenwizard]

@Parhelion These are the kinds of insights that I love to get from psychedelics! But they can sound crazy to others sometimes. But I actually think that it’s pretty profound, especially if you look at it like it’s a dream. What would it mean if you dreamed that you were sucked into a black hole? You’re getting drawn into a Singularity? Beyond your normal human identity into Oneness? Just a thought, but something to meditate on.

[fenwizard]

@mbready Yeah if you take a pantheist or panentheist perspective (which I do) then it’s all consciousness to a greater or lesser extent. But it may be that very complex systems with lots of feedback loops (like human brains) may be more conscious than very simple systems, like a rock. There is a book that came out a few years ago called “Sun of God” that argues that the Sun (or stars in general) have the same level of internal complexity, and therefore consciousness, as highly conscious beings. Many traditional cultures seemed to intuitively recognize this and worshiped the Sun. So after Eons of being a God or Goddess, would you want to just go into Oneness and be a Singularity?
There is also a theory that the energy that goes into black holes comes out as a “white hole” (a massive stellar explosion) in another Universe (or perhaps in a different part of out Universe. But perhaps for us humans to try to fathom this is like an ant trying to fathom the human world.

[Parhelion]

I just came across a small, but powerful book called “Black Hole Survival Guide”, by astrophysicist Janna Levin. I am listening to the audiobook version as it is read by the author and I always enjoy that. (Note- she reads a bit quickly for me to take it all in, so I dialed the speed down to 0.8.) The book is definitely a powerful adjunct to Andrew’s “Dreams of Light” as he writes in part 3 about the scientific evidence for a view of space, time, etc. being illusory and inherently relative. The book is small and short, and the audiobook is between 3-4 hours- but every sentence packs a punch. Sometimes less is more, with these things- as the Tibetans knew, with their pithy pointing out instructions! The book is kind of like a pointing out instruction- there were times I had to pause the recording just to sit with something she’d said as my mind started to unravel. Definitely for listening to as a dedicated activity of meditative contemplation. Five stars, highly recommend.