Brilliant powerful exercise from Robert Moss :) and some questions

Dream Journal
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Yesterday I did a suggested deepening practice in a journey I am currently doing with Robert Moss:
Registering a day as I would register a dream. In Robert’s words: “looking at incidents from an ordinary day as if they are parts of a dream.”
I followed the instructions, to just write as the words were touching the paper (my diary), and letting it flow.

It was a high consciousness awareness experience. And a very deep one:

» It explained why I recall dreams in the way I do;

» The first thing that came was the most impacting imagery, the most beautiful for me. Then another important scene of something that I wished to have done but did not so - I wrote as if I had done this (Freud would have loved this). And only after these two-memory recalling, each in different moments of the day, came a very significant moment. Timeline was not existing at all. It came as my nature: passionate. It happens a lot in my life, when I’m excited, that I write or say things very fast. I edit my texts many times, after that first impulse that brings me into writing or speaking, or whatever I do/create;

» I also noticed how I so easily project my world on the images that arise, not necessarily the reality of those images;

» I have come to confirm that when registering a dream (or consulting intuition) it is indeed important to be open minded because “having roses inside me” can simply mean that I ate an artisanal petal roses ice-cream (yammmmi!). This confirms how creativity arises from figuring out what something means to me;

» Registering a dream creates a powerful synchronicities generator, because the initial idea can lead to something more important, related to what Robert would call Net Being (I think);

» Unexpected details of the dream give access to time traveling, linking that moment with a significant event from the past, or future;

» It creates a perspective very different from the obvious one. It indeed opens up for brighter doors of awareness, creating natural meanings of something objective into a high inspirational content;

» I felt a completion loop with this exercise - the title, unexpectedly matched the end of the dream, giving me a clear answer on an important decision to be made, which I did;

» In doing this exercise I allowed myself to understand why sometimes, some things don’t make sense and/or the reason why something that we hadn’t realized before that became clear by noticing a detail.

Inspirational insights - questions to @Andrew or any member of this community?

» Could this be a cure to people who think they are losing their memory? These noticed processes are intimately related to the way we memorize things and our perception of the whole. Is there any research about this?

» I think this might be important for:

  • Older people who might think they are losing their memory, perhaps related to start preparing for death and for other experiences here on earth. Perhaps they are being invited for allowing memory to speak in a different way in their lives;
  • For children who bring these gifts into the world, but are not recognized, and by not being understood, are labeled;
  • How people connect and synchronicities happen. Could it be related to that glimpse when you register the dream and dive into some details, and suddenly you remember another detail and make that instant connection;
  • Connection of this process with:
    • the bardos (or the process described, for example, in the book “Blue Island”) - images that come and what you do with them.;
    • evolution process - when you receive the memory and are able to link it with another and “plim”, magic happens. The understanding links to that experience and we evolve.

What a brilliant exercise.

With Love and Infinite Blessings.

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This is such a powerful insight. Almost 100% of the people you meet in the world do this daily, without even realizing it (including myself!). The more you can catch yourself doing this the better, bringing Awareness to our projections is so powerful for spiritual growth.

TWR in his book the Tibetan Yogas of Dream and Sleep, writes about remembering in chapter 12 (I think) the Four Foundational Practices. The 4th practice is before you go to sleep, while in bed, remember the entire day, and tell youself it was a dream at key/memorable points in the day (the highs and the lows). I like to do this especially with the Peaks and the Pits of the day, (the really high points and really low points). I think this may really help with memory, as well as dream recall the following morning.

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wonderful… thank you.
I used to do this with my son :slight_smile: the bed time story was all the events of the day - from an observer’s perspective.
it’s an excellent exercise. I will do it more often with myself :slight_smile:

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@BlessingsDeers @NightHawk999
This bit of the chat with Andrew and Robert Moss … Brilliant!

Andrew: 55:55

"I want to share a little personal story here and see how this lands with you because one of the things that’s changed in my life over the last, i mean in particular, over the past 10 years is;- Because I’m kind of educated as a trained classic pianist and I’m a little bit of a scholar, I’m a classical kind of Buddhist guy, but what I really started to explore Robert and I’m really curious about this, is how things like classicism and traditions I mean promise and perils and everything and blind spots everywhere. I’m very very interested in blind spots and things I don’t see and in my own personal life as a psychonaut or ironaut, I was trained in the nocturnal meditations, very very rigidly very specifically, in my three year retreat following a systematic prescription a classic text, a classic thing and I did all the stuff and I did it by the textbook and I dotted my i’s and crossed my t’s , it was wonderful but I want to share with you what’s happened to me over the last couple of years that’s been very interesting and at first a bit frustrating, was that I noticed that my actual onset of traditional “lucidity” was starting to decrease and it was like, okay I know it’s not like the stockmarket is up and down, but it’s like this … what’s going on here? But what I noticed in direct proportion inverse proportionality was that I was my entire dream life so-called “non-lucid” dreams was absolutely exploding, and so originally I was careful, to say “is this like, am I doing something wrong?”… but then I started to realise that maybe this is in fact um some whatever teaching message coming through to open and expand my horizons and this is why I love your work so much. Beyond the somewhat confines of not merely just lucid dreaming and dream yoga because I always thought that was the pseudonym like I mean this is like the most evolved type of dreaming right? In fact, I know I don’t name names but quite a famous Dream yoga person and quite a famous Philosopher had a conversation where the Dream person was saying “oh lucid dreams, they’re the most evolved type of dream” and then the Philosopher was saying “Well I’m not so sure.” And I have to say I at that point aligned myself with the old lucid dreams or the most evolved type of dream! But what I’ve done recently is actually situated more lucid dreams as very viable bandwidth in this massive spectrum of my nocturnal mind and so as my lucid dreams per se started to go down and the rest of my dream world started to explode it was wow maybe this is even a larger embrace of the nocturnal meditations than the nocturnal mind and so then when I returned to your work, it’s like, i’m actually I’m rereading your books in an entirely new light! It’s like Wow! This is … I mean Robert has so much to say about this dimension that I’ll admit it (Andrew puts his hands up) I previously said “Uh I’m not so sure he gets it!”… Well! I dont think I got it! And so I’d love …

Robert interjects (59:00)
"Charming charming charming personal statement… the only thing that troubled me really in Dream Yoga was it’s some degree of disrespect for dreams other than lucid dreams, that is in the book and that’s what you’re talking about right. And I thought does Andrew actually get what is going on in dreaming. In another place in the book you made it clear that you do get it. This might be the foundation of what you’re now saying. At some point you say what really matters, you’re listing Virtues of the lucid dreaming according to Patricia Garfield and so on, and suddenly you say… this is where I gave you lots of ticks and asterisks in the margin! You say “its really about choice, its choice that matters.” See this is what is central for me. Whatever order of reality I’m in. What ever kind of consciousness I think I’m in, whether I’m lucid or not, what matters to me is that I recognize and exercise the ability to choose! In any reality!!! That’s what it’s all about! That’s why I didn’t call my first book anything like Lucid Dreaming because I thought … they don’t get it! Most traditional cultures don’t get lucid dreaming in the way the term was being used in the west at that time. The discussions matured, there’s some very good books about lucid dreaming by people who use the phrase in a more sophisticated way, but they still often tend to miss the fact that at the end of the day it’s about choice, about choosing, choosing your options, testing the limits of your reality, whether you think you’re in a physical body or whether you’re in a subtle body, whether you’re in Atlantis or the astral realm of Luna or whether you’re going to the corner grocery store, exercise choice and don’t give up that choice and also don’t tell yourself you have no responsibility and you have absolute freedom! That’s another thing that ticked me off. I’m not a prude, I’m not prepared to endorse what consenting adults think they can do, but the early lucid dream you discussed, I mastered the universe, I can deal with anything I like, anything I like to have sex with anybody, I thought is nonsense don’t you understand that dreams are real experiences and there responsibilities involved.
(1:01:01)
Andrew: “Very briefly … Isn’t that one reason Jung didn’t endorse lucid dreaming as a practice because he saw the potentials for egoic self aggrandizement and in megalomania sorts of things?”

Robert: “I don’t know that I’ve looked at that aspect of Jungs thinking though I thought I’d covered most, I don’t… I can’t answer that, but it sounds like something Jung might have said and thought certainly. Um you know in ancient and indigenous cultures recognize what goes on in dreaming is real. It can have consequences uh you can be punished for it in ordinary physical reality if you’ve done things that are discovered that you should not have done. Moral codes and standards of the unit apply in dreams as they do in regular life. I mean that’s one of the restrictions placed on what goes on in dreaming in dreaming cultures that I understand all that it can mean. That’s not the main thing that I wanted to home in. I simply wanted to home in on the idea that any reality we have the ability to choose as Vic DeFranco said: “Whatever situation you’re in you can choose your attitude and that can change everything.” So this is more fundamental to me than anything else associated with the term Lucid or Lucid dreaming. And I’ve noticed in my life in addition to those hypnologic experiences I talked about, many of the greatest gifts of dreams of nocturnal dreams have come in dreams that have shocked me awake, made me laugh, told me something I didn’t recognize, sometimes embarrassed or even humiliated my waking ego and educated me and put me on the right path! So there is that magic mirror function of dreams and there is that night movie making that goes on in dreams to bring in yet another way of looking at things, where you feel you’ve got a film crew who is producing a movie for you maybe to shock or to shock you awake or make you laugh yourself awake. I’ve had many dreams of that kind. They were not lucid, were not asked for and they have been incredibly helpful in life, as a corrective from the night to the delusions of the day.”

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Very cool synchronicity, love that you used to do that :slightly_smiling_face:

Yeah I really resonated deeply with this interview. Reading Roberts book now. I love his line “let the Universe be your tarot cards”. Brilliant!

I am glad you posted this section, because my most meaningful dreams have been Non lucid.

Its a healthy reminder to not discount any dream. Too often people (myself included) treat dreams like they are a fart in the wind, when really they are more like letters from God, or gifts from the devine. I think Robert said dreams saved his life at least 3 times! Discount dreams at your own peril.

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yes, if you take it to the awake state, it’s as if we honor only the highest achievements, when the best is the road, the love we share, and all the adventures! the lucid dream is sometimes the inspiration taking us higher, but the most important is always… LOVE :slight_smile:

Inspired in Robert’s exercise, dreaming lucid tonight and sharing it here, today I started doing an affirmation in the awake state:

“I am a “warrioress”, I keep conscious, loving and lucid in life.”

And “deer” friends in this community, you help me in this… thank yoy :slight_smile:

This was inspired on the original Toltec shamanic affirmation: “I am a dream warrioress, I keep conscious and lucid in my dreams” that I learned on a thirty days quest with Charlie Morley “Experiencing Lucid Dreaming”. I repeat this to myself 21 times in the hypnagogic state, when I wake up in the night, after sleeping three sleep cycles (4,5/5 hours), which is the only thing I do at the moment to dream lucid, all the rest is no longer needed.

Also today, came spontaneously in an email "please remember that even if you “just” have a normal dream, this many times is like the video or photos you take from the unconscious astral travels that you do :wink: "

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I had watched this video you shared, and this was one of the reasons why I decided to go on a learning journey with Robert.
Here’s an article from him just about this subject :dolphin:

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@BlessingsDeers … so you too were impressed with Robert Moss as i was! I dream both types of dreams but the most dharma informative guidance ones have been detailed extensively in non lucid dreams. Ive not heard anyone stand up for these types of dreams like Robert did in the interview.
Thank you for sharing the article.

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@NightHawk999 apologies i thought id replied here earlier. I value your comments, especially that you too resonated with this part of the interview.

I think thats great you and blessingsdeer have also been inspired by Robert Moss.

I believe quite a few of us value non lucid dreams, especially the guiding ones. And it was lovely to hear Andrew say:

I nearly died from carbon monoxide. I was unconscious 5 hours, i was dreaming of my funeral and that shook me to wake up. Dream did save me.

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Please, no need to ever apologize. Sometimes it takes me days or even weeks (if I go out of town) to reply to posts. And I have forgotten too. Life gets in the way.

Would love to hear about this story in full if you are interested in sharing?

My first thread post was on this topic, with a precognitive dream. Still to this day not sure if it was warning me of an animal attack or a human preditor attack, or both. Either way, it protected me from danger. So this post definitely hits close to home.

Andrew too has shared a precognitive non lucid dream that warned him in advance of a health problem.

Have you read the Aeneid by virgil? Its over 2,000 years old. In book 2, Aeneas is visited by a ghost of Hector, and told to leave the city, and not die in vain, for it will fall:

https://www.pantheonpoets.com/poems/hector-visits-aeneas-in-a-dream/

“He says nothing and ignores my empty questions,
but drawing deep and heavy groans, says “Ah, flee,
Goddess-born, snatch yourself from these flames.
the enemy has the walls; Troy crashes from its zenith.
Enough has been given for Troy and Priam: if the citadel
were defensible by deeds, mine would have defended it.
Her sacred relics and her Gods, Troy entrusts to you:
take them to share your fate, seek them a stronghold, one
you will found when long journeys on the sea are done.”
Next, in his hands he brings great Vesta, her priests’
bands and the eternal flame from the holy of holies.
Meanwhile, in the city cries of grief and confusion reign,
and more and more, though my Father Anchises’ house
is secluded and screened by trees, the noise grows
louder, and the grim sound of battle intensifies.
Torn from sleep, I climb to the very top of the roof
and stand listening intently: it is as though flame
were tearing into cornfields as south winds rage, swift
torrents from a mountain river laying flat the fields,
the thriving crops and the fruits of the oxen’s labour,
smashing the woodlands down: confused and dumbstruck,
the shepherd faces the din from the top of his rock.
Now the Greeks’ honour is clear, their betrayals laid
bare. Deiphobus’ mansion, Vulcan’s fire towering above,
has fallen in ruin: by it burns the house of Ucalegon;
the broad Sigean strait blazes with reflected light:
up go the shouts of men and the blare of trumpets.”

The ancient Romans clearly valued dreams, and knew about precognitive dreams. I think the same can be said about the ancient Greeks and Egyptions.

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@NightHawk999

I live in an old stone cottage on a remote island in Scotland. On a cold windy winter day, keeping warm beside the oil fired range after some lunch, I fell asleep. I was dreaming but it was from exactly where I was sitting in my armchair. I looked out the window and saw the postman. He was dressed all in black. He was looking directly at me and I knew he was attending my funeral. That shocked me to wake up and the room was filled with fumes from the range. I saw it was 5 hours passed since my lunch.

Really enjoyed reading you’re awesome story here: :arrow_heading_down:

Do you or a member or @aholecek know where to read Andrew’s precognitive story/stories? Like you i always find these experiences fascinating to read about.

Wow! This interests me because on & off these past 5 years theres a story i came across that keeps finding its way back to me. The story of Troy links in with it, as well as the time around BC. It makes me wonder if where i live i have a past life connection.

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This dream is so powerful. Talk about the dream using impressive symbolism: a man whos job is to deliver important messages, comes to deliver you one of the most important messages of your life!

Really amazing, thank you for sharing that.

Ask him in the next Q&A (you can write a question if you cant attend).

To the best of my knowledge @aholecek keeps his dream life very private unfortunatley. :frowning_face: :frowning_face: :frowning_face:

I would really love if he had a blog like Robert Moss where he shares his dreams. I think very many people would benefit from hearing the life changing dreams he has had (precognitive, teachings from masters, etc). Would be even cooler if he did a New series of Webinars devoted just to his most potent dreams. :star_struck:
I think many members would benefit from learning about these dreams, especially people who are just starting on the spiritual path. I think this would be a homerun addition to NC.

I heard about his dream from the Dreams of Light videos, I think he talks anout it in the early teens videos (video #11 through #15). Dont remember exactly, but its in the introduction of at least one of those videos, possibly a few of them.

Books 2, 4, and 6 in the Aenid are well worth your time.
Book 2= fall of troy
Book 4= Aeneas and Dido love (representing Julius Caesar & Cleopatras love affair)
Book 6= Description of Hell and the Elysian feilds

Virgils Masterpeice inspired Dantes Inferno, where Virgil is Dantes guide in the descent into hell.

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@NightHawk999 … You’re welcome. Thanks for your response & noticing the symbolism!

Thanks for the suggestions.
I can understand why one would keep dreams private. There are those like myself (human condition of curiosity) who read dreams; which can give secrets away. Robert Moss is an expert in the language of dreams, no doubt only shares the ones that he’s happy to reveal.

I believe that once you step onto the Dharma path or the Hero’s journey, there are particular stages along the route and if you tell beginners it will spoil their 1st hand experience. The bits that are told are like the ‘carrot dangling’ for the Seeker.

:blush: I may find the books you listed another distracting :rabbit2: rabbit hole or a genius clue!
Very grateful for the ideas! Thank you.

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I agree. . . . . . . . . . . . . .

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I believe that dreams can be meritorious and that one dedicates their merit without thinking of oneself and moves on. Too much focus on how good it was can lead to what Buddhists call nyam experiences. Here’s what Andrew Holececk wrote about that.

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Totally agree. An important point! I learnt this the harsh way by a teacher.

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Late to the party on this thread and my apologies @BlessingsDeers if this was mentioned at some point… But I’m curious what program/teaching you are, or were, doing with him. I got one of his books recently and was inspired by his perspectives. If what you were working through is a structured program others can also sign up for and you’re open to sharing, I’d love to know which one it was. :heart:

ps. Happy New Year!

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I was doing a 13 weeks journey “Embracing Death, Dying and the After life and using Shamanic practices and Dreamwork”@ the Shift Network. Perhaps you can join the recorded version. If you have interest you can contact Robert directly - mossdreams@gmail.com and ask him if that possibility is available.
You can check all his new events for 2024 here:
Calendar | Robert Moss / Way of the Dreamer
You can also subscribe his newsletter and receive his news regularly, and/or join his Facebook Active Dreaming Community. Contact | Robert Moss / Way of the Dreamer
Robert is very active and a brilliant teacher.
Infinite Blessings beloved @Parhelion

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Which book of his are you reading?

@BlessingsDeers has sent me some great stuff from him. Did you check out his interview with Andrew?

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The book I read (most of it, anyways) was Sidewalk Oracles.

I tried listening to his interview with Andrew but I found it a little hard to follow for various reasons (accent, cadence and speed of voices, etc). I am a reader, not a listener, and have a lot harder of a time processing information aurally so this isn’t unusual. Some of the Edge of Mind episodes have been enjoyable for me and easy to follow, so I give them a try.

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