Diving for pearls in Hypnagogia

This morning, whilst finding myself dwelling in hypnopomic states, I decided to reverse directions and try to return to the dream state traversing hypnagogia. Remembering the practice to watch the content of the mind while totally relaxing body, energy and mind, after a while short flashes of images surfaced.
After some time of observing these short sequences which almost always dissolved after a few seconds, sometimes fractions of a second, the insight arose that the quality of my observing state of mind disturbed the free self-arising of the images.
Remembering the shamata teachings, I tried to adopt a mental state of total acceptance to whichever images and emotions arose which implies a certain degree of detachment to the visions, and …. the sequences grew longer and more detailed!
It seems to me like an art /skill to do observe vividly without disturbing the energies of the self-arising visions. Not too loose (but totally relaxed!) and not too tight.
Wanted to share this for those like me who dabble around with WILD and the hypnagogic state.
Lucid dreams!


Very cool :sunglasses:!

I don’t want to influence your journey by saying anything. Just wanted to express happiness to a fellow diver. Your approaching these states perfectly :smiling_face_with_three_hearts:.


Thank you, fellow diver! Don‘t worry about influencing me, any comment is appreciated.


Very glad you wrote about this. :slightly_smiling_face:

I had this same insight come to me a few weeks ago when I was doing the same thing! Great minds think a like :wink:

I noticed every time I brought the awareness that I was dreaming up the hypnogogic images, they collapsed.

Interesting observation that the quality of the observing state could be what is causing the images to disintegrate.

My agenda of telling myself its a dream, and having that thought, may have derailed the natural flow of ‘dream thoughts’.

I just watched Joe in the second most recent meditation video say you had observe something is red, without having the thought it is red. Seems like this might be somewhat in line with what you are saying with the Shamata.


It sounds like your in the right spot and this is a special area where one has to find the middle point between observance and non observance. Once the threshold is passed and a dreamscape has formed (this will be very clear when it happens) active thought is safe to bring back in. Worth mentioning here too if you feel a pulling or falling sensation active thought is okay at that point. Even a certain amount of excitement is okay because the body has mostly fallen asleep.

Your right at the edge! Very happy to hear this :slightly_smiling_face:.

This is it. Both of your posts show me that both of you are borderline on having WILDs. It takes time and experience to observe but not observe this state. It is exciting and I sometimes still get excited by some of the visuals and my transitional state dissolves too. The key is after you get excited and the hypnagogia disappears do not move your body at all. At this state it is a game of cat and mouse, the body is stupid and the mind is smart. It will attempt to fall asleep again within a couple minutes, patience in this state works wonders.

Thoughts are okay while you wait for your bodies next attempt to be put to sleep and once you begin seeing the hypnagogia approach try to turn you active thought into what I could best describe as fleeting thoughts. They come and go and often are very random and make no sense. When centered in that kind of thought the dream forms around you, usually you will feel a dropping or pulling sensation before the dream but I have had instances where I just went straight into dreams so that is why I am hesitant to influence journeys. Everyone’s experience in this transitional state is different and it is truly a personal journey in these states.

It is trial and error. But I want to add, just experiencing these states alone should feel like a great accomplishment. It is hard to carry awareness into this transitional state. It will be no time before WILDs start happening :slightly_smiling_face:.


@mbready Thanks for this!
I had a WILD only once before and have since struggled a bit with it, so great advice.


@NightHawk999 Interesting points. I just recalled B.Alan Wallace’s story that he told once, how he used to go and watch sometimes little league softball games, where he practiced watching the game attentively without any bias for any team and no particular liking of the game itself. In order to practice attentiveness without attachment to that what he saw.


@mbready @NightHawk999 Just wanted to share, the approach described before seems to slowly bear fruits, at least for me; had two short lucid WILDs this morning, while traversing the fuzzy liminal border between hypnapompic and hypnagogic phases. The observing mind needs to let go control whilst modulating emotional response to self-arising images.


Really appreciate you saying this. I dont think my skills are quite there yet, but thank you for the encouragement. I just read Robert Moss talking about this in his book active dreaming.

Its been a big goal of mine since starting dreamwork. Andrew says its one of the most difficult ways to become lucid. I am wondering if this has actually created a mental prison in my mind, and made me not even attempt to do WILDs. Moss was saying that they are more accessable than most people think.

Going to redouble my efforts.

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This is a really good tip.

I think even better, or possibly a more advanced practice, would be to watch a past political debate between presidential candidates attentively without any bias. Much more tougher to do, but I think it would also qualify as a powerful Reverse Meditation.

Awesome to hear this! This is always motivating to not only hear a powerful strategy, but also hear that with practice it will bear fruits. Any tips on how to let go of the control? On the weekends I like to get coffee and sit outsite the shop and practice Shamatha with the people and things in the parking lot, trying to let anything I percieve arise in my mind without judgements. Its very tough to do, and I dont think the caffeine helps decrease ‘constrictions’. :upside_down_face:


I recommend vipashyana on the breath as Alan Wallace explains in The Attention Revolution.
Very subtly there is the urge to control the breathing. Try to just watch attentively the movement of the lower stomach and accept any type of movement, short, long, shallow… it does not matter. Trust that the body knows how to breathe better than you. And learn to just watch. That’s how I try to practice that.