I wrote a transcript of my question and Andrew’s answer from the first Webinar (Episode 001: Why Night Club? Why Now?). In a subsequent comment I will have additional commentary. Here is the transcript:
~47:08 minutes
ArthurG: I was intrigued by the paper you co-authored on virtual lucid dreaming. Are you planning to do more work involving virtual lucidity? How do you see virtual reality fitting into Night Club / Night School? For example, in terms of training lucid dreaming or facilitating a practice of illusory form?
Andrew Holecek: Yeah, great question. Yeah, thanks for the segue into that. Arthur’s referring to a paper, I believe it is posted on the site. It’s a study I did with the cognitive neuroscientist Jordan Quaglia. We had a great time doing it, we conducted the study almost two years ago with, I think we had 40 participants, and that was my first [time] coauthoring a scientific paper. And Jordan, who is deep into this, has reached out to me inquiring about, let’s do future things together. So, for sure! Stay tuned on that one.
On a different note, I met with a wonderful gentleman in a program I did in Santa Rosa about a month ago who is a producer in Los Angeles. I met with him, he showed me a demo of a VR program that he’s been working on for quite some time on the bardos, you know, again, this kind of Tibetan approach to death. And I was really impressed—his name is Tom—with what Tom had come up with. And so I will be meeting with him in Palm Springs in a couple weeks, he’s going to come down with his whole setup, and he’s also now I understand in contact with some European scholars that I know and producers over there who I do not know to work with VR in the kind of arena of bardo yoga. And so stay tuned on that one as well!
Those of you who have engaged in VR, obviously Arthur has and he gave a—I believe it was him that gave these really interesting recommendations on the website that I will also definitely explore—VR has tremendous potential. Deepak Chopra, just parenthetically, allegedly when he took off his VR headset for the very first time, the first words out of his mouth [were] “This is going to change the world!” And so VR has tremendous application for the exploration of mind, for the exploration of lucidity. I presented at a conference, an integral conference, a little over a year ago, with Jordan, where we talked about some of the potential applications and implications of virtual reality with an integral perspective.
But I could not agree more with what I feel is coming from Arthur, and that is that there is a truly untapped, extraordinary opportunity in the arena of virtual reality, and we will definitely work with doing whatever we can do along these lines. You know, studies have shown, Jayne Gackenback and others have done some studies showing that in fact virtual reality users have a higher likelihood of lucidity in their dreams, because you’re working with certain very similar kind of bandwidths or dimensions of mind. And when I did VR for the very first time, my first impulse was “this is the closest experience I’ve had in my waking life to a lucid dream.” It was extraordinarily similar, and I’m sure those of you who’ve explored virtual reality can attest to that.
So yeah, there’s so much to say here, and the opportunity of doing something very specifically, we’ll have to see where that goes. These VR programs as you might suspect are very labor intensive, they’re very expensive, and even the reason it hasn’t conquered the world yet is that even getting the headsets, getting the computer setups for the high resolution like Oculus Rift and Vive, which are kind of the top end VR systems, they’re not inexpensive these days. And so, great segue question Arthur, stay tuned. It’s definitely on the event horizon, and we just have to see what the future will hold. But like you, I think we both see the extraordinary potential here. And so I’m completely on board with this, so just stay tuned with that one, OK?