Liminal Dreaming event in San Francisco July 10th (want to meet?)

On July 10th in San Francisco: Liminal Dreaming: Exploring Consciousness at the Edges of Sleep
Author Jennifer Dumpert in Conversation with Writer Erik Davis
. I’ll be attending with Liz (my wife). We’ll probably be there a couple of hours before the event; would any NightClubarians in the Bay Area like to meet up?

My friend Elizabeth spoke very highly of a similar event (on the same book tour) in NYC recently.

I’m very interested in exploring liminal dreaming more – the hypnagogic state especially – as my life has become a lot more chaotic and busy, and my dream recall sucks lately. I think working my way consciously into hypnagogia is a good dream yoga practice for me at this time. Dumpert is an expert on such things, so I’m quite intrigued to see this talk and read Liminal Dreaming.

~ArthurG

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Hi @ArthurG! Thanks for sharing this event. I just got a ticket and would love to meet up with you and other Bay Area Night Clubbers that night.

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Yay! I’ll need to leave right after the event but can meet up beforehand if that works. In any case I’ll see you there!

~ArthurG

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Thanks for letting us know about the event. I want to attend. I don’t yet know about meeting up beforehand. At the very least, I will enjoy knowing that other NightClubarians / NightClubbers are in attendance and maybe we can share some post-event thoughts here.

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UPDATE: Liz (my wife) and I are going to be grabbing a bite to eat beforehand at Buckhorn BBQ - SF 619 Market, aiming to get there around 4 p.m. Ray McClure (creator of the fascinating 2-person VR experience VVVR) will hopefully be there as well. If you are able and want to meet us at Buckhorn that would be great! It’s an inexpensive place that has vegetarian options (e.g. impossible burger, salads). Otherwise hopefully we’ll see you at the Liminal Dreaming event.

~ArthurG

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Per my earlier message, if any of you are in the Bay Area and want to meet me at Buckhorn BBQ at 4 p.m. or so you can see what Liz and I look like in the thread Warm Introductions! (Feb 22 post).

Although I’m currently in “summer face” mode, so I have less hair.

~ArthurG

Hey @ArthurG I probably won’t be able to meet up beforehand, but look forward to meeting at the event!

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UPDATE: we’ll probably get to Buckhorn BBQ around 4:30 or a bit later; we need to get to the Liminal Dreaming event by 6 p.m. See whoever of you there – sounds like @Allison and @niki are definates for the Liminal Dreaming event and @niki is a maybe for Buckhorn.

~ArthurG

How was it? Any highlights?

It was delightful. Highlights for me included meeting Jennifer Dumpert in person and meeting fellow Night Club members at the event (@Allison and @MartinK)! As for the talk itself, I was particularly interested in her story about being on her beloved aunt’s deathwatch, and realizing that her aunt was in a hypnagogic state when she was close to death – and relating to her on that level. She mentioned that the guy who ran that hospice later told her that he also believes dying people go into a hypnagogic state when they are close to death, which is a natural thing, but often gets medicated by people who think they are being delusional and don’t feel comfortable with that (thus robbing them of a valuable human experience). Also she mentioned Richard Miller and iRest, which was a cool coincidence since his interview was posted here today.

~Arthur

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Thanks for the detailed highlights.
I was looking at her flyer for the talk and it listed iPad scrying as a topic…Any idea what that’s all about?

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@Bob44, she didn’t get to that in this particular talk, but I read about it in her book Liminal Dreaming:

John Dee was also known for his scrying skills. To scry is to foretell the future using a reflective surface. The classic object is a crystal ball…In addition to automatic writing, Dee contacted spirits using a “shew-stone,” an Aztec obsidian mirror brought to England in the 1520s…My pal Julian Vayne, author of several books about chaos magick and psychedelics, told me about a scrying method used by people in his community. Another exercise that closely resembles the Dali/Edison Method, this modern form of scrying works by taking a reflective surface – anything from a mirror to a powered-down iPad will do – and placing it in your lap when you’re sleepy. As you enter hypnagogia, you gaze into the surface and wait for images, perceptions, auditory phenomena, or whatever else might arise. (Liminal Dreaming, pp 55-56

~ArthurG

That reminds me of the granzfeld effect.
I think there might be some vr programs designed to do the same thing. Have you tried any of these types of vr programs?

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Yes, the Ganzfeld effect would be expected to produce hypnagogia; ditto for floatation/sensory deprivation tank. I’m not aware of any VR programs designed to produce that effect, but would be very interested in such things.

~Arthur

I attended the event which was terrific. I found Jennifer highly thoughtful and learned, not only about Liminal Dreaming, a practice she has labeled and branded as such, but which encompasses Hypnagogia and Hypnopompia with which many of us have some cursory familiarity, She is also learned about dream practice from a broader standpoint. Jennifer in her talk and her book “Liminal Dreaming” takes these two practices which bracket sleep itself (i.e. occur before and after what we think of as sleep), to a thoughtful and refined level. She is passionate about using both as a platform for a different type of dreaming which she contends are easier to access and have different qualities.

I must say that I do find the two states to be easier to access than lucidity in general, but they can also act as a springboard to lucidity which I have experienced in my own night-time practice. My issue with hypnagogia (besides its spelling) is that I have previously viewed its only value as doorway to lucidity. Jennifer maintains that it’s a valuable full-fledged dreaming practice unto itself, and one that I intend to explore with the help of her book and website. I recommend others who may be curious to do so as well.

Moreover, I think she would be a fine subject expert for Andrew to interview.

Thanks, Arthur, for calling attention to her. I enjoyed spending time with you and Alyson (sp?) after the event in downtown SF.
Martin

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You’re welcome, @MartinK. It was great to meet you in person. Something I forgot to mention is that afterward @Allison told me she’s become more aware of the nature of hypnopompia since encountering Dumpert’s work, i.e. it’s not necessarily just visual but could consist of dreamlike thoughts. This is something I hadn’t picked up on in what I’ve read/heard from Dumpert so far. After Allison said that, I also started noticing aspects of hypnopompia that are non-visual!

~ArthurG

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For me, the highlight was the post-event discussion with @ArthurG and @MartinK. I really forget how few people I have to go deep into these topics with and it was absolutely lovely going on with Arthur and Martin for a while without getting those confused looks. In-person chats are so valuable and I didn’t quite realize how much I was missing that! It was great.

As far as the talk, I was really amazed at the depth of the experience possible in these states. While I pay attention to them quite often, I’d never thought to maximize them or focus a practice on them. For me, it’s about opening up a whole new dimension of experience that I overlooked. I will absolutely play more in these zones and can’t wait to get into her book.

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