Hello from Seattle Eastside

Hi – I have been a member of Night Club for a couple of years but have only utilized access to the interview series. I went to one of Andrew’s Dream Yoga workshops in Seattle a few years ago and was truly moved. I think Andrew is quite a teacher. Disciplined and gifted and full of humor.

One thing I want to mention, just to see what it brings, is that I am diagnosed with Schizophrenia. Although I am no longer ashamed of this, I am still hesitant/nervous about posting it. Throughout my life I have received messages from the Buddhist community such as “these teachings aren’t for the people like you.” I would never tell anyone because it felt like a scarlet letter. I understand the sentiment because I have seen the devastating effects of the illness. I myself have experienced extreme states of mind that put me in the hospital more than once, and I still battle it every day. I have not been to the hospital in ten years tho. The message I heard was “you people are just sick and there is no helping folks like you.” Ehh…Skillfull means as long as it doesn’t inconvenience the normal order of things yah?

I think my experience with Schizophrenia and extreme states of mind has taught me many things. One is the importance of the most basic teaching I ever got, over and over, from one of my teachers (whom I never told of my illness), “Correct your motivation”. Meaning cultivate bodhicitta (compassion for others, putting others first). At first I thought this was a small, introductory teaching. Of course! Everyone knows that one. Why do they repeat it, slowly, every class? I have found when you do start entering states that dislodge your ground, shake your solid stance a bit,
this little teaching becomes huge. Like a polestar for a ship at night.

Another important teaching I received, deceptively simple, was written on a chalkboard. I got lost on my way to a teaching that I was really excited to go to, wondering what all I would learn. When I arrived I couldn’t find the right room, I was hurried and a bit frazzled. I finally found the room, which was empty because the teaching was finished. On the chalkboard the words “Respect all living beings” remained. That was my teaching, I realised it, and I have carried it with me everywhere to this day. It was kind of like a dream…

I believe those two small teachings have helped guide me more than any others. Other teachings push me, but these guide me.

My lucid dreaming is not so hot, and actually I do have to be careful about it, all considered. I think it is a step i need to take. I find the teachings here profound in many ways and very helpful. Honestly, they are very healing for me. It helps explain and ground some of my experiences that no other place I have found can. I think what everyone here is doing is very important for society. You inspire me.

On a side note, I find “nonsense” language as fruitful as "sensible’ language. Twisting up language so it breaks from reason is something you learn in hospitals and day centers. If you take it seriously, rather than taking a place of privilege and consider it simply delusional, it helps break apart the “solid, lasting, and independent” point of view. and actually teaches, believe it or not. The linear, rational structure of language itself ties us down somewhat. It is useful, but is limited, and the issue I see is that people are very much on the side of reason and ration, and maybe tossing out the normal order of things would help a bit. So it is a “both and” situation. Imho.

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Glad you joined the discourse with such interesting observation and insights. Andrew’s interview series has developed into quite a valuable resource and I also see it as a focus for attention all by itself, with or without all the other excellent resources on the NightClub site.

You wrote,

I’ve had a few pithy instructions that are similar to the ones you received, though mine came in dreams. One was to practice “forbearance,” which I had to look up and another was to practice “openness.” In a liminal experience I was told to “Have gratitude for every living thing,” immediately followed-up with, “and have gratitude for every non-living thing.” It doesn’t take much to point us in the right directions, but it does take some resolve and practice to move forward from there.

A little guidance goes a long way, eh!

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Awesome. Thank you Barry. That’s super cool that you received those in dreams. The universe really cares for us! And I needed to hear that today.

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We used to live on Capitol Hill in Seattle when I first got out of the Peace Corps in 1980. Enjoyed the area and learned a lot. Hard to beat the Pike’s Place Market in those days and I saw the “Fish Philosophy” being created that later found its way into many schools and professional organizations, including Six Flags when my daughter worked there.

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Hello there @xi1 and welcome to the forum ! :hugs:

I’ve read you and I see you.

First thing I want to say is that those “spiritual” people (including those “identifying as Buddhists”) saying these teachings are not meant for people suffering from Schizophrenia and other kind of mental illness are just completely lost and missing the mark. Like “yeah right, have compassion and skillful means for all beings and everything, except those people. Too weird. Not supposed to happen. Don’t wanna hear about it. Sorry, can’t do nothing for ya if you’re suffering from psychosis. Too bad for you! I’m sane, you’re not. That’s how it is.” - That’s as spiritual as it can get sometimes, and I’ve witnessed it and been in such a situation. I do not suffer from Schizophrenia myself, but I have and have been experiencing extremes states of mind in different ways for various reasons (although probably to the same extent as You did) and therefore can relate to what you’ve gone through, at least a little bit. And if not, at the very least, I feel you, and I do not see you as being different from me. I do not know you but I see you.

As Edward Podvoll puts it, WE ALL possess “the seed of madness” and I do believe that’s the actual reason why so-called “normal/sane people” (including, you know, “the ultra-spiritual” ones) are afraid of people suffering from psychosis. Because they’re afraid of the truth that, it could happen to them too. They think “people with psychosis are different from us, they’re not normal” so they’re afraid. But saying “they’re different” couldn’t be any more further from the truth. Because, the truth, once again, is that psychosis could happen to absolutely anyone. Because Everyone has a mind, and can technically undergo the same type of experience, under the same gathering of causes and conditions. Take any “normal” person who considers him or herself as perfectly sane, and give them LSD. I’m sure they’ll change their mind.

However and more importantly

“There is another seed within us, even more important than the seed of ego: it is the seed of sanity, a human instinct of clarity, present in everyone as a brilliant, clear awareness capable of spontaneously cutting through the self-deception of madness… Alongside and embedded within psychotic suffering, there exists always a potential Clarity and Openness of mind and heart.”

  • From “Recovering Sanity: A Compassionate Approach to Understanding and Treating Psychosis”, an outstanding book.

For several years (especially during my teenage years), I was on the constant verge of derealization. I didn’t want to talk about it from fear of being given medication, so I was looking for answers by myself. It worsen around age 16. At age 17, along with the sudden arrival of a chronic disease (leading me to anxiety and depression), I developed PTSD (never diagnosed, but god I can tell I was matching the symptoms) because of something terrifying I saw online. Initially “just a bad joke” whose consequences turned out to be dramatic for some people, especially for fragile kids like me.

In spite of my fragility, because I needed help I couldn’t find where I was to heal - and couldn’t work through dreams for several reasons - I decided to work with psychedelics instead (Mushrooms, Ayahuasca and Tobacco mainly). I experienced states of sheer madness, lostness and fear. And words have so little meaning here. Those experiences blew me into smithereens, oftentimes more than once in a single night. But I also experienced these “Islands of Clarity” (another term Dr.Edward Podvoll used) interspersing the darkness. Pure, Absolute, Unadulterated Sanity, when I thought everything was lost forever. It never was. The light always is behind it all.

This led me to the yearning to learn about Mental Health. A burning desire to learn and help people suffering from such extreme mental states. Because I experienced it myself, and realized anyone could experience it. “How can we let people experience this and do nothing to help them ? What is the medical world/psychiatry doing to help ?” I started to ask at the center I was in: “What about people suffering from mental disorders ? What do you do about them ? How do we help them ?”

Towards the end of my journey in Peru, I had a ceremony that led me to lose my mind for three month. No assistance, no help from the center I had been in for so long and who “considered me part of the family” - in the words of the director (I was hoping to get a job there). It is through a lucid dream (a nightmare voluntarily invoked before bed in which I absorbed the trauma of the ceremony) that I regained sanity and balance. I was infinitely lucky to succeed. What about “all the others?”.

Ayahuasca - and other substances - are always deemed to be incredibly effective treatments for PTSD… I cannot deny it. But my question was and still is: “What about people with Psychosis? Or psychedelic-induced psychosis ? What do we do for them?” I asked someone at the Ayahuasca center I was in. This person just smiled in response, definitely not knowing what to say. And this really fueled me with anger, a sense of injustice and a burning desire to find answers.

So my interest for helping people suffering from extreme mind states has never left me. I started to gather a ton of information on the topic. I was looking for already-existing alternatives. The deep entrenched belief - especially held by the mainstream psychiatric system - that “psychotic people can never recover” is an outrageous aberration. It is false.

Professor Manfred Bleuder, who was director of the Burghölzli Hospital in Zürich said in a letter to Dr.Podvoll:

I have been much attacked within the last years as I have seen and described the recovery of many Schizophrenics who had been severely sick for long periods (…) The reason [of these attacks/critics] is: “you have made the wrong diagnosis.” In my opinion, this criticism is unrealistic and is harmful to our patients."

Edward Podvoll is one of my Hero. And, ha, so. Yes, he was a Psychiatrist who studied with none other than Chögyam Trungpa for years and underwent a 12-year Buddhist Retreat. He’s not a “small player” as we say in French… he founded the Contemplative Psychotherapy Department at Naropa University (always dreamed of it…) in Boulder, Colorado. (Andrew, Alan Wallace, Edward Podvoll, Medical Cannabis… Damn it, I need to fly there sometime! :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes: ) And also, of course, he has founded - or co-founded can’t remember, the Windhorse Institute.

Anyway. I just want to say: I believe you can heal. I’ve read enough and learn enough on the topic, seen enough testimonials to believe it is possible. And I might not be a doctor, but I’ve learned an awful lot, which - and I am not ashamed to say this, nor do I pretend to know it all - some doctors, limiting themselves to what they’re taught at uni do not necessarily know about. And I can testify of that when it comes to, say, IBS and Diet. But that’s not the topic. At least the Doctor who said that wasn’t one of “those doctors”:

“Ultimately this book is about perceiving and nurturing islands of clarity, for in this way full recovery from psychosis has been accomplished and will continue to occur without aggressive or physically intrusive methods of treatments”

There’s also a ton of things, in addition to this, that can play a major role in healing psychosis. I’ve been reading a lot on the link between Diet and the Brain. It’s huge. It holds the potential to improve significantly the state of those who suffer from mental disorders.

Once again, I’m not making this up. Check out “Gut and Psychology Syndrome” by Dr.Natasha Campbell-McBride if you haven’t heard of it! She’s a MD with a degree in Neurology and Nutrition.

I was living not so far from a Psychiatric Hospital in Amiens (Philippe Pinel Hospital Center) whose reputation wasn’t so good… How funny when you know that:

“The father of modern psychiatry French psychiatrist Philippe Pinel (1745-1828), after working with mental patients for so many years, concluded in 1807: “The primary seat of insanity generally is in the region of the stomach and intestines” - And yet, the last thing a modern psychiatrist would pay attention to is the patient’s digestive system! We will discuss the scientific and clinical evidence pointing in the direction of gut-brain connection in schizophrenic patients

Anyways, my point is there’s an actual relationship between Gut and Brain health.
There’s balance to find here. To reduce any disease to on aspect or another (“emotional/energetic” vs “biology”) is again, a dualistic view, I guess. I’m trying to figure things for myself (see this post!), and I’m realizing both have a role to play in healing. I don’t want to confine the answer to just one thing.

Okay. I think that’s it. There’s yet more to say and write, but that’s a good beginning already… I hope that what I’ve written is to any possible extent helpful or useful. If you wish to know more, anything I can share, the little I know that might help, it would be a real, real pleasure and joy for me to do so. If not (!) If what I’ve just said was… useless (because you already knew it! It’s totally possible… but maybe somebody reading this didn’t!), or I don’t know… Sometimes I’m just really too much, especially when I see someone suffering and that I do happen to know something that can help (e.g.: recently, I significantly helped a student suffering from IBS and my hairdresser who was suffering from Ankylosing Spondylarthritis to improve her state, just sharing the stuff I knew about diet and immunity. You never know what a haircut can lead to!). If that wasn’t useful, well, let’s just forget about it… but who knows, maybe it’ll help other people, so I’ll keep it as it is anyway :grinning:

But I couldn’t not say something. And I could say more ! But that’ll do for now.
I also know that @Andrew has worked with patients suffering from Psychosis. I can’t remember if he talked about it in his books (haven’t read them all… yet) but he talked about it in a Q+A one Thursday. I’d love to know more about it…

By the way, I think having a sense of Humor, Warmth and sense of Lightness is a sign of a real teacher. Definitely is awesome, and I’m glad you’ve found his teachings and this community… You’re welcome here. Sometimes, making a first step, sharing a story or a thought, opening up… can lead to beautiful Things.

I wish you the very best, and at the very least, I hope you enjoyed the reading and/or that you could find and feel some warmth in this message. It was meant to in be there!

And @_Barry Gratitude is awesome :hugs: :wink:

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Kefir to manage that relationship on the physical level.

Inner Fire Yoga/Meditation to manage that relationship on a metaphysical level.

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Hi, xi1, welcome. Thanks for bringing your perspective to the group.

Counterpoint: I’ve encountered articles and papers lately talking about how mindfulness can potentially help people with schizophrenia, e.g.

How mindfulness can help sufferers of schizophrenia

Self-acceptance and compassion

Recently, much more encouraging research began to emerge. These studies shifted the focus to mindfulness-based approaches — which may include formal seated meditation, but overall emphasize awareness of the present moment, no matter what activity one is engaged in. This includes observation of sensations, thoughts and emotions and is typically done with gentle detachment, self-acceptance and compassion.

There are numerous mindfulness-based interventions that have been developed, including Mindfulness-Based Stress Reduction (MBSR), Mindfulness-Based Cognitive Therapy (MBCT), Acceptance & Commitment Therapy (ACT) and many others.

The research shows that such mindfulness-based interventions can give people a greater acceptance and insight into their experiences of psychosis, so they are less bothered by them, even if hallucinations and other symptoms are not eliminated.

In addition, the symptoms of anxiety and depression, which often accompany and may exacerbate psychotic disorders, diminish.

This evidence not only comes from case studies and small sample pilot studies, but also from randomized controlled trials (the golden standard while evaluating effects of any intervention, pharmacological or psychosocial) and reviews of research.

It might be interesting for you to ask @Andrew if he has any advice for you on how best to approach practice, perhaps on one of his periodic Q&A sessions. The next one is December 2nd, and questions can either be asked live during the session or submitted in advance.

~ArthurG

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@TheNewOneironaut. Your post reached out to me, thank you. Your journey sounds filled with difficulty, but also bravery and courage. There is a lot to unpack and think about in your post. I am definitely going to look up Edward Podvoll – Chogyam Trungpa’s books have helped me a lot throughout my life. I have been meaning to get probiotics for a long time but…procrastination!

@Steve_Gleason Thank you for the suggestions.

@ArthurG Thank you for pointing me to that article.

@Barry Fish Philosophy, awesome. I had never heard of that but really glad I followed that link.

Thank you all for welcoming me. I hope to learn many things and possibly contribute here and there.

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Maybe you check it out live, if the Market is still there. It was very entertaining.

I saw it when I was younger but I had no idea there was a philosophy behind it. I wonder what came first, my guess is the tossing.

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Just a few more things I thought could be interesting to share here…

As much as mind has an effect on matter… Matter has an effect on Mind as well. It’s a bi-directional thing. It’s an important thing to acknowledge and not to get stuck in one particular view (e.g: biological “vs” psychological-spiritual) Combining a meditative and dietary/biological approach can bring really awesome results. Here are more “findings” on the topic of brain and mental health:

First of all, on Vitamin B3 (Niacin) and Schizophrenia

The medical theory of what causes schizophrenia is dopamine excess. A person is then given certain drugs to help regulate this. The potential problem with these drugs is that they could have side effects that cause metabolic syndrome and insulin resistance. This has been shown to worsen symptoms of schizophrenia because of what it could do to the brain . However, Dr. Abram Hoffer had another theory about schizophrenia. It was called the adrenochrome theory. Adrenochrome is basically the by-products of adrenaline. In his research, he found that the chemical structure of adrenaline is similar to LSD and that in higher amounts, it could have certain effects on the brain. His theory was that schizophrenia comes from excessive amounts of adrenochrome in the brain, which is toxic.

Normally, a person has an enzyme that clears out that chemical. But, people with schizophrenia have a defect with this enzyme. He found that large doses of vitamin B3 every day (straight niacin) may help prevent the conversion of the precursor of adrenaline to adrenaline, making less adrenaline. This could potentially help clear out adrenaline as well as decrease the production of adrenaline.

Here is the book Dr. Abram Hoffer he wrote on the topic
Orthomolecular treatment for Schizophrenia

Fasting & Psychosis

Psychiatrist Abram Hoffer also explored the potential of fasting and the effects of food-intolerance (e.g.: gluten and lactose)

“When Hoffer subjected his patients who did not respond to orthomolecular treatment to a 4-day water fast, he discovered that 75% were allergic to dairy products. Out of 60 patients that he treated over a 4 month period, over 40 were normal by the fifth morning of their fast”

A little further

A recent case report highlighted unexpected resolution of longstanding schizophrenic symptoms in a 70-year-old Caucasian female patient after starting a low-carbohydrate, ketogenic diet. The authors of this case believed the reasons for this positive response was from the elimination of gluten and the modulation of the disease at a cellular level. They recommended that schizophrenic patients be screened for celiac disease, and/or that treatment be augmented with a gluten-free or low carbohydrate, ketogenic diet

An interesting article on gluten/lactose exclusion …
Cambridge University - Relapsed Schizophrenics: More Rapid Improvement on a Milk- and Cereal-free Diet

Which does make sense when you know that…

P.54 “(…) gluten and casein peptides, called gluteomorphins and caseinomorphins were detected in the urine of patients with Schizophrenia, autism, ADHD, post-partum psychosis, epilepsy (…) These opiates from grains and milk are thought to get through the blood-brain barrier and block certain areas of the brain, just as morphin or heroin would do.”
From Gut And Psychology Syndrome

Also, talking about fasting, the Russians were some of the first to explore the potential of fasting on health. It extended to general health issues, but it started with studies on mental health.

Controlled Fasting Treatment of Schizophrenia in the U.S.S.R.
http://orthomolecular.org/library/jom/1971/pdf/1971-v03n01-p002.pdf

The treatment has been found to be effective in more than 64% of cases of schizophrenia of many years’ duration. Forty-seven percent of patients followed for a period of six years maintained their improvement. Those patients who resume eating a full diet and break the prescribed diet relapse. The maximum effects of the treatment are seen two or three months after the recovery period is started and the diet followed closely.

However some ideas are debatable, such as the exclusion of meat and eggs from the diet, as if problematic. In Gut and Psychology Syndrome, these products are on the contrary, considered to be, for good reasons, the buildings blocks of the healing the gut lining… and therefore of the inflamed brain. And there’re tons of reasons as to why meat and eggs belong to a healthy diet. (See also Fat Chance and The Big Fat Surprise to learn more on this topic).

On Vitamin D deficiency

This other video from Dr.Eric Berg is also really interesting…
Vitamin Deficiencies in Mental Institutions (Eric Berg)

And he’s not the only one talking about it !!

Correlation between total vitamin D levels and psychotic psychopathology in patients with schizophrenia: therapeutic implications for add-on vitamin D augmentation

…there was severe vitamin D deficiency in patients presenting with an acute episode, significantly different from those in remission. Is vitamin D deficiency the result or the cause of an acute episode? Our results contribute to the idea that vitamin D deficiency and schizophrenia may have interactions with an unknown pathway

Vitamin D and schizophrenia: 20 years on
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41380-021-01025-0

Again, Vitamin D is found in greater amounts in fish liver oil (cod liver oil, for example), eggs and fish. So in terms of Health (ethics is yet another topic), animal products are excellent.


Finally, more articles on the reasons why a Ketogenic can be interesting for brain health… and schizophrenia.

Ketogenic Therapy in Serious Mental Illness: Emerging Evidence

A high-fat, very low–carbohydrate ketogenic diet was provided for 3 weeks, which resulted in metabolic features, such as elevated beta-hydroxybutyrate and decreased glucose levels in the plasma and decreased body weight, that correspond with nutritional ketosis ([Kraeuter et al., 2015](javascript:;)). The ketogenic diet prevented the schizophrenia-like abnormal behaviors induced by acute MK-801 administration, including hyperactivity, stereotyped behavior, decreased sociability, working memory deficit, and impaired pre-pulse inhibition of startle in male mice ([Kraeuter et al., 2015].

Keto diet for Schizophrenia
(An excellent intro to what a Ketogenic diet is and how it works, by Psychiatrist Tracey Marks)

As an introduction, this book is also pretty good.
Grain Brain – David Pearlmutter (Grain Brain: The Surprising Truth about Wheat, Carbs, and Sugar--Your Brain's Silent Killers: Perlmutter MD, David, Loberg, Kristin: 9780316485135: Amazon.com: Books)

“Anecdotical” Evidence of the effectiveness of a ketogenic diet on schizophrenia…
The Ketogenic Diet for Schizophrenia - KetoNutrition

The man, who was obese at 322 lbs (146 kg), saw the following improvements after following a ketogenic diet consisting of “coffee with medium chain triglyceride (MCT) oil and butter (“bulletproof coffee”), eggs, meat, fish, poultry, spinach, kale, and olive oil” for 3 weeks (…) After remaining on the diet for most of a year, he lost 104 lbs (47 kg) and *his general functioning greatly improved. Importantly, he continued to experience a reduction in both positive and negative symptoms.

And while we’re talking about fats…

Beneficial effects of omega-3 fatty acid supplementation in schizophrenia: possible mechanisms

Quite interestingly, a high-fat diet, such as a ketogenic diet, is one that’s gonna be gluten-free, ideally lactose-free - Although as @Steve_Gleason mentioned, Kefir is a really interesting thing that is well-tolerated in general, Natasha Campbell-McBride talks about it a lot - filled with Omega-3, and many interesting nutrients for the brain… (E.G.: Vitamins B, including B3 - Niacin - are found in high quantity, and are also more absorbable, in animal products. Just Egg Yolks and Beef Liver alone are incredibly dense in nutrients. Vitamin bombs of some sorts.).

We’ve been scaring off people with cholesterol and fats, and yet this is precisely one of the things our brain needs the most to work properly. Instead, we’ve been told to replace these animal fats with PUFAs (or Poly-unsaturated fatty acids) found in highly-processed vegetable oil such as sunflower oil, canola oil, soybean oil and so on… which might contain a certain amount of Omega-3 fatty acids, but which also do contain a really high level of inflammatory Omega 6…

Anyway. I’m not in any way defending the ketogenic diet as being perfect or anything. I’m not exactly following it, but some guidelines have helped me a lot. I’ve experienced I don’t know how many diets to find something that could help with IBS, and this turns out to be the preludes of an answer… So, I’ve read a lot about it, and whenever it can help, I share the information. May or may not be the answer but at least, I did what I wanted to do. Just share.

I also know that Andrew’s sister is Schizophrenic. He talked quickly about it during a Q+A. He didn’t go into details, but if Andrew see this post and that there’s anything interesting or useful, I hope she’ll benefit from these pieces of information too…

Then of course, I may be misled and totally wrong. But I hope there’s some good sense in what I wrote and in those doctors research…

I hope it’ll help and that it is, at least, interesting to some extent!

Wishing you the best,

Guillaume.

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My grandson had a rough time after puberty and was finally diagnosed as having a lack of seratonin and dopamine (amongst whatever else . . . ) which is now being treated effectively (for now) with meds and diet. His behavior and motivations have improved.

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Guillaume-

Thank you for your thoughtful and well researched post. Currently I try to follow intermittant fasting. I have been doing it now for about 6 months and it has had a very positive effect. My brain feels more able to handle situations.

Given that, I am definitely open to all of the dietary suggestions being made. My reasoning now is that I take my meds everyday and they help me function, not “heal” but keep me at a level where I can communicate etc. So given that meds are helping me, why wouldn’t a proactive approach to everything I eat help? It seems evident to me now but was not always so. I will look at those articles you shared. Thank you.

I need to stress that I feel that I do not represent the schizophrenic population in general, because no two are alike, and would never want to imply that I do. I have the diagnosis and have spent a lot of time in hospitals and day centers, but I am lucky in that I have been able to learn how to communicate to “neuro-normative” society. This is not at all the case for many. And it can be a dark place to be. I want to be sensitive to that and make sure people understand that I understand that it is a complex issue. In reflection, my comment on my experiences with the buddhist community and skilfull means etc was not coming from a place of wisdom and was not thought through properly. Everything is a two way street, and in the long run everything and everyone is a gift.

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I have been doing intermittent fasting for close to two years now, including skipping dinner twice weekly for a 24 hour fast. I want my body to do that extra “housekeeping” it does when it is not digesting.

Another powerful protocol is Epsom salt bathing. A fifteen minute very hot bath with lots of salt leaves over a pound of toxins in the tub every time.

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@xi1 Referring to one of your earlier points: shamata meditation has a very positive direct effect of calming and steadying the mind, which I imagine could be very beneficial for people whose minds are quite turbulent.

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Yes, it is a really good approach. Edward Podvoll stresses the importance of taking one’s medication exactly as prescribed (which may look counter-intuitive at first - after all, the goal is to eventually be able to stop taking them) so that you know exactly what is going when you take it. So, adding things to your lifestyle in parallel, such as a Ketogenic diet or Intermittent Fasting (hurray @Steve_Gleason ! That’s awesome !!) could be really interesting.

Keep us updated. I really wish you the best.

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