Spirituality and Science.....In Search of a New Fundamental Reality

I have seen things that don’t make sense when viewed from the perspective of our current understanding of reality. My spiritual path has taken me right up to a confluence with science and physicality and the path ahead is…murky at best.

In Donald Hoffman’s most recent interview he is clearer than ever before about the very real probability that space and time are not fundamental. I believe that we are on the cusp of understanding some very radical concepts that will go a long way toward clearing that murky path. :sunglasses:


Waiting for him to be on the cover of TIME!


This is by far the most in-depth and bold talk I have heard from him.

For those who are unfamiliar with Dr. Hoffman’s theories, he is basically saying that the reality that we live in, including right down to basic spacetime, is essentially a view through a VR headset that we have completely reified.

All of our deep science has just explored that headset perspective…we have no idea what goes on in “the circuitry” behind the illusions.

Cutting edge modern physicists are completely convinced that spacetime is doomed, so our views of reality are doomed as well…scientifically. So what’s behind the curtain? They are shining the best lights they can deep into that darkness for theories.

The best thing about this particular talk, and what is most germane to our lines of discussion, is that he addresses spirituality in a few places, even obliquely postulating at one point that when we calm our thought process through meditation we may be parting the curtain. In my experience I would add dream practice as another possible window into the fundamental reality.


This paraphrase is from the first Dream Yoga talk Andrew gave few weeks ago,

And so this is what he says. The Waking experience has been going on since a period of time. that never began, and is never really interrupted except by the additional overlay of dream time confusion. We know that dreams are not real, because we wake up from them periodically. And therefore we have a contrast. However, we have no such contrast by which to recognize the unreality of conventional appearances and quote so let me say that again.

We have no such contrast by wish to recognize the unreality of conventional appearances and code. In other words, we haven’t found a dimension of mind, and therefore reality, the reality that’s disclosed that is more foundational that is more stable. That is more real than this so called waking state.

And so therefore, because we haven’t found that we are victims of this kind of constant expression of ignorance which manifests itself archetypally in the non lucidity principle. This is really again what it means to be asleep in this deepest sense so one another way to say this is that being asleep, means that we don’t look at our ignorance.

I’d like to see Andrew interview Donald Hoffman.

Note: His riff starting at 134:00 is a really interesting take on life and death in our “simulation.”

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I’m so glad you posted this @Steve_Gleason ! I learned of DH a couple of years ago and watched some interviews of his on YouTube.

I definitely had inspiration while listening to this latest talk as it confirmed thoughts I literally had this past weekend.

Ever since I watched this clip of aliens a couple of weeks ago, I couldn’t shake the feeling that these beings are upgrading the hardware. Sort of what Hoffman was talking about, how the coders make the tweaks in the background and in doing so, to test it out, they must play the game and thus interact with the interface, hence we get alien sightings.

I also noticed subtle feelings of frustration/anger at the thought of these beings doing whatever they’re doing and then disappearing when they’re spotted. I get this protective instinct as I think it’s super shady behavior.

Part of me wants to interact to find out what they’re doing here and another part of me understands this can never be so as their very nature is so beyond my comprehension.

Anyone else have any thoughts as to the nature of these beings as being code manipulators versus just random aliens from another planet? I honestly believe they’re (part of) the wizard behind the screen in the Wizard of Oz.

Years ago I read Far Journey’s by Robert Munroe and he intimated that the human race is the design product of a more advanced alien species which uses our planet as a garden to harvest “Loosh”, where the human species is regarded as the prime and most productive farm animal. All our sufferings and joys produce emotional energy which is syphoned off by the aliens as a product and taken away to “somewhere” for their selfish use.

Years later when I watched a movie called Jupiter Ascending (the Wachowski’s who created The Matrix films) it brought this concept to life again and had me question once again could this actually explain the sightings that don’t make sense to our modern consciousness?

I get solace from the disturbing nature of these ideas by not reifying them and remember emptiness, but I share here because it would be interesting to hear others thoughts on the matter. I admit because there is such a force of ignorance that prevents us from waking up, is it because of these coders behind our reality? As a little girl I felt there was more going on than meets the eye and this feeling has always stayed with me. When I had the paranormal activity and then vision in the clouds in 2008, it confirmed my life long held suspicion there is definitely more going on that what I can understand.

Sorry to ramble on but I feel like many long held intuitions are converging for me at the moment. It’s exciting and I’m inspired by Hoffman with his own mediation practice and the need to let go of this interface and go into the void. No wonder Siddhartha no longer stood up from under the Bodhi tree and why the metamorphosis led to the Buddha who stood up in his place. How many of us are willing to let go of who we are/know in order to be an awakened one?

Today during this morning’s Virtual Hangout, @Andrew left me dumbfounded when he shared he lost so much in order to pursue this path. He truly is the light I look to in someone who has walked the talk when it comes to entering the void and emerging to a different life/personal transformation. If you’re reading this Andrew, you are a hero in my eyes :heart_eyes:

I truly am grateful for this group and the wonderful opportunities to learn and share.

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Consider the possibility that they are just…us…and we are them.

I have thought long and hard on this for many years. Perhaps our species is one that has evolved on other similar planets just as we have here. We make a classic self-centered mistake when we limit our considerations to our own planet. It was not all that long ago when that classic mistake had us thinking that the stars actually revolved around us.

Perhaps on some of those worlds we had an extended window of opportunity, similar to what the dinosaurs had here on earth. That would have given them (us) plenty of time to figure out how to get beyond the limitations of what we see as spacetime…and get into the circuitry behind Dr. Hoffman’s VR headset. :wink:

If all of these sightings are real, and I believe that some most certainly are…that is quite obviously the case. They could just be “cousins” here to help us along. And we could certainly use some guidance with the state of things here in our corner of the galaxy.

Btw…in my readings of Tibetan Secret Doctrines there are a number of not so oblique references to an expanded greater cosmic presence of humanity.


Some people claim to be channeling beings from other dimensions.


The inter-dimensional thing would certainly be one way to jigger with the circuitry behind our headset, right? :sunglasses:

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I attended a Spiritualist church for a couple of years (2011-2013) and even took a course that involved seances in the evenings. One gifted psychic told me about a heart condition I would eventually experience (a life threatening heart arrhythmia almost killed me in 2017) and he saw a connection to Holland (I ended up winning a trip to Amsterdam a year later in 2012), in the end, despite all this amazingness, I ended up leaving the church.

I am confident from my experiences with the church and my own intuitions is that human beings do have gifts of being able the see future timelines materialize. As for channeling, I think it’s baloney. Lol The people who channeled at the church impressed me the least. I looked at it as a creative story telling at best. Psychics that can speak with the dead and can confirm factual information with the living is what impresses me.

What gets me genuinely excited these days is the various alien sightings over several years by multiple Navy and other aviation personnel. I feel that is something that can be witnessed by everyone. I honestly hope they are benevolent beings. I have this underlying feeling that they aren’t. At best, I hope they are the ones behind the screen and tinkering with reality for purposes to preserve the earth (they seem to be diving into the oceans). I am beyond curious to see what the USA government disclosure will reveal. Apparently it’s supposed to happen in June.


As with anything, there will be those who profess talents that they do not possess.

If there have, indeed, been visitors here…they have been here for a very long time. There is even some evidence of this in cave art, although that is sketchy at best. :wink:

I suspect that if that is the case and there was bad intent…it would have been manifested by now.

And if they have been here for all this time…what better place for a base than at the bottom of the ocean where we can’t go.


I agree they have been here for awhile. But given that humanity is at it’s peak for messing up the biosphere, I think now would be the time for them to act.

I suspect they’ve been planning something under the cloak of the ocean for awhile now.

Time will certainly tell. Lol

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Several posts by CloudDragon addressed this topic but alas, he is no longer active and the posts have been withdrawn.

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That’s too bad! I would have read them. Thanks for letting me know @_Barry :pray:

Since we got onto this topic of UAPs (Unidentified Arial Phenomena) here is something I found today. There is a wide range of opinion in here and I think it may boil down to the fact that there are not as many planets out there that harbor intelligent life as we might think…which makes our earth a pretty special place…and perhaps a pretty popular place for a number of reasons.

I think we can tie this discussion in well with our practices if we consider the importance of being one with all sentient beings…wherever they might hail from.


Thanks Steve! I’ll definitely take a read!

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Similar conclusions using different viewers—good triangulations.

Lanza contends that a network of observers is necessary and is “inherent to the structure of reality.” As he explains, observers — you, me, and anyone else — live in a quantum gravitational universe and come up with “a globally agreed-upon cognitive model” of reality by exchanging information about the properties of spacetime. “For, once you measure something,” Lanza writes, “the wave of probability to measure the same value of the already probed physical quantity becomes ‘localized’ or simply ‘collapses.’” That’s how reality comes to be consistently real to us all. Once you keep measuring a quantity over and over, knowing the result of the first measurement, you will see the outcome to be the same.


I just read this earlier…glad you saved me the trouble of posting it, Barry. :sunglasses:

There are a lot of deep thinkers out there now who are talking up “Consciousness Only” as a the fundamental view of reality. It is starting to verge on main stream thinking that Space/Time, as a fundamental view, is doomed indeed.


The tipping point has been reached and it will be interesting to see how this manifests in literature and the arts over the next few years.


Hate to say it but all these fascinations have been reviewed in Indian and Tibetan Buddhism over the past 2500 years down to the question of materiality versus mind only. Answer, it’s both, you are the Buddha of your own universe creating reified materiality (by ignorance) out of the Mandela of the manifestation of your own universe. Does that mean it’s all mental? No! It’s equally described by skillful means as material, it’s just that our pre-awakened perception is built on ignorance… but the underlying stuff is still there. Buddha hood is the ultimate realization that both are true and valid and comfy!


Great observations and welcome to the nightClub!

You wrote,

I would say the fascinations are more focused on how western science is evolving towards similar conclusions but from a completely different path, hence the revelations are making their way into the “science” that usually remains “objective” and materialistic, but less and less so as reality unfolds via different scientific measurements.