12/16/22 Today, while reviewing the journal entry for this ladder dream I said to the Self, “Show me what you need me to see,” over and over again in my mind. Bam! My waking consciousness is back in the dream space and I am shown this: My hive is on the ladder, at the top of the ladder, ascended through the Collective Unconscious layer. I lucidly look around and see in every direction (endlessly) the hives of the collective unconscious bobbing up to the surface, aglow with the energy of the universe, below me. They are gathering because of me.
Notes: This is all new territory for me… exciting, calming, and scary all at the same time. @aholecek@Andrew What’s going on here? What happens in this space?
Note: The hive is a symbol of the accumulated layers of experiences of my life that together form a vessel for the soul. It’s appeared in over 65 dreams since May 2022. In the dreams there are never any wasps in the hive, rather it’s a meeting place of consciousness, filled with the energy of the Self. We come together there. (see previous posts) Each of the hive dreams has been a lesson, like having a guided tour to the universe.
Was going to wait to comment on this one until I heard the first part of the Q&A, I caught the 2nd half where he said perhaps it means to go lower, deeper within yourself. I can see this interpretation, being that your hive is at the top of the ladder, with no where to go, but down deeper intomyourself, intomthe core of yoir being. That being said, what you might find, I think will be the same as ifmyou go ther opposite direction as well:
Or perhaps it is leading you higher to No Where. What is above that? Space and Light, or put another way: Emptiness and Light. Two major core teachings in Buddhism. And as we talked about the other thread, Emptiness is not nothing, it is No Thing.
Do you meditate?
What types of meditation do you do?
Not sure if you have had them before, but I think what Andrew may have been alluding to in the second half of his resposne ro you, is there are deeper level dreams, or ‘higher’ level dreams you have access to. These are called Dreams of Light.
TWR classifies dreams into 3 categories:
Samsaric dreams
Dreams of Clarity
Dreams of Light
The most difficult stage in dream yoga is the Dreams of Light stage. It sounds to me like you have already experienced the first 2 types of dreams.
I am no expert, I have never had this type of dream before, but have heard other members talk aboit thier experiences with them.
In terms of Dream Yoga, have you been able to practice stages 2-8 yet? Which stages have you had the most success with? Which have been the most difficult? Andrew has a webinar video dedicated to each of these stages, and also describes them in the last few videos of his Book club Dream yoga video series.
Yes, I understood what Andrew was saying about going down (and it did feel like a bit of a put down and a poo poo - ing of Jung in general), but Andrew’s comment was a great prompt for some dream activity (below).
I am very Jungian in my interest in dreams. I love metaphor, symbols, the narrative, and the way Jung structures all of this. I am less interested in new techniques and definitely not interested in Buddhism. Honestly, I went straight to level 8 in the webinar videos and know that I am already there. Lucidity happens more and more during the daytime now.
A few nights after the Q&A with Andrew I had this dream in which I was off the ladder and now hovering on a kite over the trees and hives of the Collective Unconscious. I’m thinking… “What’s that green clearing over there?” The emphasis is on the kite that’s showing its structure as the religious sign of the cross. I know this as I’m looking down at the top of the trees. I am soaring, floating effortlessly, and carrying the cross and/or the cross is carrying me.
In the next night’s dream I was lucidly down in the green clearing, in the center of the collective unconscious woods. I am standing in the middle of the clearing with Jesus (the Self) and a buck deer. I hug Jesus. We are one consciousness. Other deer, and my parents (both deceased), are peeking out of the woods at us to let us know that they are there.
So I’m feeling very validated. I don’t need any more interpretation or new lucid dreaming techniques. I really just need to get around to helping other people.
Glad to see that you were able to dialogue at the Q&A session. A few of his Words of Wisdom quotes have come from Jung and Andrew sometimes cites his work in answers, so I didn’t get the same feeling about his response. In addition, there are many posts in the NC addressing Jung’s prodigious work with dreaming and the unconscious and his introduction to the first English translation of the Tibetan Book of the Dead is often cited as a momentous West meets East moment in history. Awhile back I posted these photos of Jung in a thread.
Your posts have been very inspiring and thought-provoking so I am looking forward to hearing more about your work!
That was my initial view as well when I first heard him respond. When I rewatched the video the second time though, I had a different interpretation of his response. I think what he was saying is this: great job with what you have accomplishined (most people never get to the level you are at in their lifetimes), but you are not at the finish line yet. Meaning the highest stages of Dream work, are still yet to be realized. I also think the term you used of Collectice Unconsciousness, is not the same as the Collectice consciounses or collective Superconscious, the later 2 are what I believe was symbolized by the hives in the trees and some of your other dreams (aka the Christ Consciouness or Primordial consciousness). Saying collective unconsiouness would have really thrown Andrew off in his response, because I dont think it describes the same phemonema that you were experiencing in your dreams, and the definition is radically different. I think you may be mislabeling it, and that is why he told,you to dig deeper, so to speak. I also think this is brilliantly illustrated with the Kite in you subsequent dream, to go deeper or go HIGHER to the christ consciousness/Collectice Consciouness/ Primordial consciousness. This consciousness permeates everything, to the infinite highs and infinite depths of all things, the collective unconsciousness does not.
I am not familiar with Jungs work in depth, but I peronally believe he had achieved these higher level dreams known as Dreams of Light, or Sleep Yoga. Their importance cannont be over stated enough, and the irony is words do not do them justice! There is a subjective knowing and wisdom with them that is very mind blowing and paradigm shattering.
I certainly respect your lack of interest in Buddhism, I am not trying to convert you. I think it is really important to realize, that you can still study the meditative and dream yoga and dream sleep techniques, without sacrificing your Christian beliefs. I know of Christian priests who have done just this, and said the Buddhist teaching really helped them deeper understand the Christian teachings, and helped them further spread the messages of Christ.
I think what @_Barry may be alluding to in this quote, is that in a lot of ways Jung was kind of the Father of American Buddhism. Given his fame and academic respect and acomplishments, him endorsing one of the holiest books in this religion, speaks volumes about how important he viewed the teachings and practices of Buddhism in not just dream life, but wake life as well.
I was really impressed when you said you have basically been lucid dreaming all your life. That is a true Gift from God! In your dream you say that you realize that you and Christ are one consciousness, so beautiful, and so true. The fact that your parents are there validates this as well, they too are a part of this consciousness. One technique I use in difficult social meetings or family gatherings is to remind myself to see the Christ within all people, most especially the ones that are very difficult to be around. His consciouness is within them as well, regardless of wheather they realize it or not. I believe it was Andrews Stage 5 or 6 of dream yoga that really highlights this sacred teaching. I hope you do not poo poo these earlier stages as being of less importance or significance. Would really recommend you watch his Deam Yoga Book study video, I believe it is video 25, 26, or 27, where he talks about stage 5., (the diety within practice). It is one of the best videos I have seen on this site.
Would also recommend you look into stages 3-4. The one where you ask the dream to show you something that you are afraid of. If you have mastered all your fears and insecurities already, then disregard this recommendation. If not, and your goal is to get out into the world and help as many people as possible, I think mastering this stage will really help you do that. and not only does it help you grow, and show you your shadow and blind spots, but in doing this ‘yoga’, it helps you learn to stretch your mind, a treasure which you can then share with other people, many who spend a great deal of their lives blindly imprisioned by these fears.
Again if you have already mastered these stages, not need to practice them any more. But if you have not, I think you are doing yourself, and all the people you are looking to help, a great disservice. Its very rare to find people with this powerful gift you have been given, why utilize it to its fullest potential? I think you will be able to help much more people if you do.
Aha! This fills in the blanks for me. This is indeed encouraging. I know nothing about the Collective Consciousness or Superconscious – this is what I am needing to learn about. I’m most interested in the dreams that happen there and if I can accurately represent those spaces in my drawings. I’m trying to make the invisible metaphors/lessons of that consciousness visible.
Ha! I am not Christian either. I don’t follow anyone organized religion. My religion is my dream journal.
Who knew? I have never known it to be otherwise. I started writing them down when my boyfriend (now husband) suggested I keep a dream journal after watching Joseph Campbell’s The Power of Myth interviews with Bill Moyers. That was January 1987. This morning’s dream was number 3,393 . I started including drawings of the dreams after my mother died in 2016. Recently, I did an exercise mapping the dream drawings onto key events that have happened since then, and how the content has intensified, also tracking recurring metaphors and characters.
I have a few friends and acquaintances who lucid dream almost nightly. My Allergist has been LDing since he was seven and says he created his entire practice in his dreams. He’s a devout Christian and had been voted the best in Pioneer Valley a few times. When I told him I was trying to heal myself in my lucid dreams he was very supportive. My Marine buddy who runs The Warrior’s Art Room regularly gets inspiration for his paintings, mostly abstract, from his lucid dreams and has been doing it most of his life. On the other hand, an old Dharma friend from the '60s who I ran into and discussed dreaming with, confessed he was bored with it and wanted to know how to stop it.
I am no expert, I am still a newb to all this dreamwork, but you are in the right place, there are lots of experts and highly skilled members on here who can help you. I think this would be a good follow up question for you to ask Andrew, “you said go deeper, how do I go deeper?”.
I have not experienced Stage 9 or Sleep yoga yet. It is my understanding that you will have a difficult time representing this space in your drawings. Maybe I am wrong. The dreams are of pure awareness, which appear as luminous light, or pitch black dark. What is important is not the visuals, but the feeling that accompanies these dreams. It is a taste of nonduality. Words and pictures will not do it justice.
The reason I have asked if you meditate, is one method of dropping into this state of awareness is to close your eyes and meditate in your dreams, or try to fall asleep in your dreams. (sometimes though closing your eyes in the dream will wake you up).
If I had your gifts, I would be practicing the different stages of dream yoga every chance I got. I think the more that you master those stages, the deeper you will be able to dive into the dream realm, and I believe you will see the positive ramifications carry over into your wake life as well.
