The Lives of the Realized (index in first post)

The Public Universal Friend Jemima Wilkinson

Indeed :slightly_smiling_face:

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Who Was Martin Luther?

Dont agree with him that good deeds and good actions dont matter.

But I admire his emphasis of faith, and his courage to break from the church, which had to have been a suicide mission at that time

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Luther is a complicated figure. Founder of the Protestant Reformation, a deeply religious and devout man, but also a massive antisemite :cry:. Unfortunately similar to a lot of historically important Christian figures like Pope Gregory X, Jerome, John Chrysostom and Augustine.

Modern scholars agree that Martin Luther’s antisemitism contributed significantly to strengthening antisemitism in Germany which ultimately culminated in the Holocaust.

I’m a Lutheran Christian- this is unfortunately a uncomfortable legacy we have to wrestle with.

As for the doctrine of justification by faith alone, I don’t think he ever said that good works don’t matter exactly. Just that they aren’t involved in the process of salvation. Good works should be the result of a truly faithful life and if they aren’t present, that means something is wrong. They don’t lead to salvation however, only God can save.

He said in his Treatise on Good Works, for example that

The first and highest, the most precious of all good works is faith in Christ, as He says, John vi. When the Jews asked Him: “What shall we do that we may work the works of God?” He answered: “This is the work of God, that ye believe on Him Whom He hath sent.” When we hear or preach this word, we hasten over it and deem it a very little thing and easy to do, whereas we ought here to pause a long time and to ponder it well. For in this work all good works must be done and receive from it the inflow of their goodness, like a loan. This we must put bluntly, that men may understand it.

Also

In this faith all works become equal, and one is like the other; all distinctions between works fall away, whether they be great, small, short, long, few or many. For the works are acceptable not for their own sake, but because of the faith which alone is, works and lives in each and every work without distinction, however numerous and various they are, just as all the members of the body live, work and have their name from the head, and without the head no member can live, work and have a name.

And

So a Christian who lives in this confidence toward God, a knows all things, can do all things, undertakes all things that are to be done, and does everything cheerfully and freely; not that he may gather many merits and good works, but because it is a pleasure for him to please God thereby, and he serves God purely for nothing, content that his service pleases God. On the other hand, he who is not at one with God, or doubts, hunts and worries in what way he may do enough and with many works move God. He runs to St. James of Compostella, to Rome, to Jerusalem, hither and yon, prays St. Bridget’s prayer and the rest, fasts on this day and on that, makes confession here, and makes confession there, questions this man and that, and yet finds no peace. He does all this with great effort, despair and disrelish of heart, so that the Scriptures rightly call such works in Hebrew Avenama, that is, labor and travail. And even then they are not good works, and are all lost. Many have been crazed thereby; their fear has brought them into all manner of misery. Of these it is written, Wisdom of Solomon v: “We have wearied ourselves in the wrong way; and have gone through deserts, where there lay no way; but as for the way of the Lord, we have not known it, and the sun of righteousness rose not upon us.”

His main point I think is that we shouldn’t do good things because we think God will rewards us for being good. Rather, we do good things out of praise, thankfulness and gratitude for what God has done for us. It takes the selfish motivation out of doing good things. Like “renouncing the fruit of your actions” in karma yoga.

Here’s a movie about Martin Luther, for those who are interested.

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Dietrich Bonhoeffer

Lutheran pastor, founding member of the anti-Nazi Confessing Church. Murdered at Flossenbürg concentration camp.

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Ah, it won’t let me edit the OP any more :sweat_smile:

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Bankei Yotaku Zenji

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Jinul Puril Bojo Daesa

Soen (Korean Zen) Master, reformer, founded the school of “sudden enlightenment but gradual cultivation” that dominate Korean Soen today.

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I did not know this about him, or the others.

I wonder if his prejudices stemmed from hatred of the Jewish faith, or like with the Catholic Church, he saw a lot of corruption in the Jewish people of his time.

I think this may have been one of the reasons Jesus broke from Judaism, that he deeply respected the faith, but it had become corrupted by human nature. Just like with the Catholic churches sale of indulgences.

AMEN

Thank you for saying this. My intuition was thinking the same thing about ML’s beliefs. That he still thought good works were important.

Amen. If one has complete faith in Christ (God), it is impossible to not align your actions to do good.

AMEN!!! This is my favorite of the 3 quotes you posted and I think hammers home the point you are making the best :star_struck:

I agree with this 100%. Meaning if your heart isn’t in these good acts 100%, and it is your egoic motivations, the good acts become hollow, rather than being Hallow.

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Index/Top

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Wovoka

Paiute medicine man, founder of the Ghost Dance movement

Redbone made a song about him:

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Isaiah Shembe

Prophet, miracle worker, founder of the Nazareth Baptist Church

Reggae artist Lucky Dube wrote a song about him:

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Here;s the Wikipedia article on the topic. It’s a sad and ugly history. Being against Judaism is part of it, especially for Luther (he thought once he had reformed Christianity Jews would start converting to Christianity and got mad at them when they didn’t), but a lot of it just stems from blaming Jews for the death of Christ, even though like it was the Romans who actually killed him and nobody seems to have had much of a problem with the Romans :roll_eyes:. It’s Christianity’s original sin.

:joy: love this!

Yes we should serve God not from a sense of duty, but from a place of gratitude. This is related to another doctrine of his, that you can’t do anything to save yourself. It’s all in God’s hands, only God can save. This humbles the ego and creates a situation where we must rely entirely on God’s mercy. Seeing how worthless our own efforts are, we turn to God to save us, like an infant turns to its mother. Thus our love for God naturally grows and our own wants become consumed by the love of God. I think this is a powerful bhakti upaya.

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AH talked about this book, have not read but looks good:

Graceful Exits: How Great Beings Die (Death stories of Hindu, Tibetan Buddhist, and Zen masters)

Graceful Exits: How Great Beings Die (Death stories of Hindu, Tibetan Buddhist, and Zen masters): Sushila Blackman: 9781590302705: Amazon.com: Books

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Ken Wilber - Love Until it Hurts

Broad strokes, and generalizations, but he does bring up some interesting insights

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Sufism: Ibn Arabi ‘The Greatest Sufi Master’

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Swami Prabhupada

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@Bucket

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Harrison was always my favorite Beatle :green_heart: I didn’t know about his connection with ISKON though until I watched the video I shared.

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@Bucket

Several years ago we were in India doing the Buddhist Pilgrimage when, in Agra at the Taj Mahal, someone mentioned that Krishna was born in a town not far away, on the back road to Delhi, called Mathura. We took a detour there and indeed it was amazing with seven Krishna temples in that small town, though six were closed for the afternoon, unfortunately. However, the place of his birth, an underground jail cell, was open and full of devotees. I couldn’t believe he was born in jail, but I guess it’s a well-known fact in his bio. Definitely worth visiting if you are ever in the neighborhood.

Index/Top

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Loved this!

I wonder if this was symbolic or literal?

Are we all not born into the mental prisons and jails of our times?

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