Re: Scopalamine plants in ayahuasca. My understanding on this is limited but from what I understand, sometimes small amounts of other plants are added to the 2 main plants in ayahuasca (the ayahuasca vine plus a DMT containing plant - usually chacruna). Occasionally very small amounts of other plants are added. A scopalamine containing plant that is sometimes added is tree datura. This is at the microdose level, and it is said to “strengthen the visions”. I was only in once ceremony in which the shaman told us that a small amount of tree datura had been added but I couldn’t tell that it was any different than any other ayahuasca. It certainly didn’t turn us into command obeying zombies! I suppose an evil shaman could do that, however, so know your shaman. I have heard of people going to Peru and ending up with ayahuasqueros who were more on the dark side or who were poorly trained and just trying to make a buck off of the gringos. I’ve even heard that you can buy bottles of ayahuasca in the markets in Pucallpa, Peru. You need to know who you are working with!
Also tobacco is sometimes added (also a very toxic plant in larger doses) but in micodoses it’s a protector medicine. Here’s a horror story that I once heard. A South American ayahuasquero traveled to some Native Reserve in Ontario a few years ago to do ceremonies with the Native people there. He had added quite a bit of tobacco to the brew. An elder woman was present in the ceremonies and she was feeling very sick and didn’t want to drink any more. She was pushed into drinking more and told it was just a block she needed to push through. She ended up dying of nicotine poisoning!
Also regarding datura: Many shaivite yogis in India smoke ganja as a spiritual medicine. These are yogis who walk the Tantric path, so it’s a different path than the more pure Vishnu yogis. I’ve heard that they often add tobacco and datura to the ganja. I misspoke when I said I’d never done any scopalamine based medicines. Years ago someone gave me some datura and I tried smoking some. It only gave me a mild buzz, it didn’t seem particularly psychedelic or interesting, so never tried it again.
There are also Tobacco shamans in the Amazon whose main hallucinogenic medicine is tobacco (with no ayahuasca added!). Orally consumed nicotine is quite hallucinogenic but you have to really know your dosage because you are literally journeying on the edge of death! Michael Harner writes about his experiences with Amazonian tobacco shamans in his book “The Way of the Shaman.” He also has developed methods for traveling to the spirit world for shamanic purposes without using any drugs at all. I’ve also trained in workshops where we did this. It’s more akin to hypnosis, you journey just with drumming. Many traditional shamanic cultures just use this method with no plant medicines!
Thank you for telling me this. Looks like Datura is an umbrella term that includes less than a dozen plants
Amen Brother
Would not shock me if there are more than a few horror stories. One of the reasons I have waited so long to try the ceremony.
Really fucked up.
I think I have seen videos of shamans burning tobacco during the ceremonies like sacred inscense, and fanning it around the participants
Did not know this about tobacco, very interesting.
Does he talk about his non drug journey method in his book, or only in his workshops?
I have also heard that there are places in the US where you can go do Ayauhuasca ceremonies. Dot quote me, but I think someone said there is a place that does it in or near Montana?
I went through a phase of exploring Salvia Divinorum. That is the strangest psychedelic medicine ever! And it never did much for me. The same tribes that use psilocybin mushrooms (Mazatec, Zapatec and related tribes) use Salvia shamanically. It’s in the mint family. Cooking sage is in the salvia genus. The active ingredient, Salvinorin A works with the opioid receptors, but it’s not an addictive opioid. The traditional shamanic method is what you see in this video, to roll up a whole bunch of leaves and chew them. Westerners tend to smoke it. I found that I was not as sensitive to this medicine as I am to other medicines (which is weird because I am super sensitive to the tryptomines and often take much lower doses than other people.) And the experience is just WIERD! Strange experiences that were hard to make heads or tails of, or to integrate in a meaningful way. When I did the traditional method of chewing a roll of leaves, I just got a mild buzz. But there are extracts you can buy - these are leaves that are soaked in concentrates of Salvia that are labelled as 4x, 5x or even 10x the normal dose. I gradually worked up to higher dosages. For me, I often found myself going back to early childhood or even infancy. I often found myself merging with the brick wall of the school building where my parents taught when I was a baby. Perhaps it’s was a pre-egoic memory of what it’s like to be a baby merged with the world, before there is a separate ego? I was a baby in the 50’s and salvia had a strange 50’s cartoon vibe for me. One of the strangest experiences was when I smoked a strong extract from a bong and some visions/thoughts about aliens came through, and it freaked me out so bad that I threw my bong across the room! Luckily it just spilled some water and didn’t shatter. After trying it a number of times, I just decided that I had learned enough from salvia and never did it again. It’s not scheduled in the U.S. or most countries. A lot of tobacco smoke shops carry it - even strong extracts! Definitely not my medicine. Also, another wierd experience that a lot of people have (but I never did) is that they find themselves living the life of another person in another part of the world. They completely forget about who they are and they feel they are just this other person. Like I remember someone said that “I was living the life of someone who is an artist in France, and I was painting. I was that person and completely forgot about who I was. Then suddenly. I’m back.” Smoked salvia is a very short trip - like 15 minutes or so.
I am deleting information about ayahuasca retreats in the U.S.
I just got a feeling that this information shouldn’t be posted here just in case someone decides to do investigations. Write me privately if you want more info.
Yes! The book describes how to shamanically journey without drugs using the sonic driving of the sound of the drum. You can play shamanic drumming recordings for this. You then travel to either the lower world or the upper world. The purpose of these journeys is to meet shamanic helpers like power animals or guides. One of my main energy psychology teachers trained in this and he incorporated these journeys into his training.
Thank you for this! Really want to check out his book now. Robert Moss also does Shamanic Drumming in many of his group sessions. He has died 3 times. Are you familiar with his work?
@BlessingsDeers I think will also vouch for his expertise.
I think the purest and strongest way to do this practices is without drugs or medicine. Easier said than done though
Thank you so much for telling me this. I agree with you that its pricy, but for the services provided I think that fair, especially given the fact they could probably charge double or triple that price and still get away with it. Nice to know there is competition in different states. Thanks for the tip on the music, you got great taste in tunes, so northern CA may be where I end up, after weighing the options. Hawaii is very tempting, but I have a feeling that it and Costa Rica are way out of my buddget.
Have you done a Dark Retreat before?
I want to strengthen my meditative practice before I seriously commit to the trip, so may be a year or 2 before I pull the trigger. I will definitely email you when I am ready, and Greatly Appreciate you offering to do the referral. Thank you my Friend, that really means a lot to me.
I would want to do it the traditional way. My guess is smoking it gives a faster uptake of the medicine, but causes it to leave the system faster.
Really fascinating. Do both the smoking and chewing only last for 15min. Do you lose track of time (does that 15 min feel like hours)?
Looks like some states are starting to ban it, but legal in about 21 states:
" The legal status of Salvia divinorum in the United States varies, with 29 states (and the territory of Guam) having completely banned it and others considering proposals for banning its use."
In a dark retreat, TWR said that he was able to see his mother preparing his food, and then walking to him, kinda like what you were saying, kinda like remote viewing.
Re: Albert Most and 5-MEO-DMT. Wow, that’s amazing that he was able to track that guy down. His experience with the toad is legendary in psychedelic circles. I have never done the actual toad venom, both because the toad is endangered and because their are some other compounds in the venom that are mildly toxic. In the 90’s, however, pure synthetic 5-MEO-DMT was unscheduled and there were chemical supply catalogs where you could order it!
I first did it in a ceremony, the night before an ayahuasca ceremony in 1997. It was a 15 minute blast into White Light ego death. We were in a circle and we each did it one at a time while the others held space. For the first few seconds I could feel my ego resisting the ego death and it was agonizing until I let go into the Light. Then I completely disappeared and the next thing I knew I was back, but took me a few seconds to remember who I was. It was like “where am I and who are all of these people looking at me!”
Later I ordered some through the mail and experimented more on my own, both on it’s own and in combinations with other medicines and in various dosages. Some use it at lower doses to do body work as it shoots energy through the body that can open up blockages in the energy field.
The medicines were an important step in my journey but they definitely are not for everyone. I was led to the medicines through dreams. But eventually the medicine itself told me to cool it with medicines and take a break, and meditate more and do more non-medicine spiritual practices. I’ve thought about doing a dark retreat some time. Perhaps that will be a further step. I’ve heard about a place near Ashland, OR (I think I heard about this through Holocek?). We shall see if that place calls me at some point.
Another option to check out is the Church of the Eagle and Condor in Phoenix, AZ. They are a mixed race (Native, White, Latino) ayahuasca church based in Native traditions rather than in Christianity. A few years ago they had their medicine confiscated by the DEA. This went all the way to the Supreme Court and they won their case. I’ve never participated in their ceremonies but I’ve heard good things about them. I’ve heard Belinda Eriacho (Dine and Zuni), one of the leaders of this church speak at psychedelic conferences and at recent trainings that I attended through Naropa. I believe that this church is open to visitors but not exactly sure about their policies, but you could email them and find out more.
Yes, Robert Moss is great!
Thank you for this!
I checked their calendar of events and its empty. Better to call them or check their social media pages to see when the nest times to visit are.
Very happy they won their case. these religious freedom cases are HUGE wins for the First Amendment!
"## Why do people take reishi mushroom?
Reishi mushroom has been used to help enhance the immune system, reduce stress, improve sleep, and lessen fatigue. People also take reishi mushroom for health conditions such as:"
Sleep doc said this helps with sleep
Beloved… check out this also:
(she’s a friend who was born on the same day I did)
Another dear friend who is also a healer and was born on the same day as you did 
received recently giant healing with them.
I watched the video that is above these words on the homepage:
Dare to discover the unexpected teachings of the jungle!
She looks like she could be your Sister! Beautiful! Lots of facial similarities! Even similarities in the vocal chords !
Not for everyone, but I think people should have the option of taking these medicines with a Spiritual or Medical Professional.
Thank you for telling me this. Loved the circle and how yall held Space
Pretty amazing such a shorty trip could facilitate ego death. Appreciate the backstory, didnt realize the frog guy was such a legend!
David Germano and Michael Sheehy Discuss the History, Diversity and Modern Relevance of Dark Retreat
Very Sacred Practice, Very Ancient and time tested.
A drug free ‘psychedelic’ trip practiced for 1000s of years. Follow your intuition on it, not for the faint of heart, some of the hallucinations can be quite terrifying, and some people have gone mad doing it. (See the ‘Hole’ and solitary dark confinement in Prisons…). Perhaps it was first discovered by locking up prisoners in caves or pitch black dungeons for long periods of time.
Its my understanding the demand has skyrocketed after Aaron Rogers gave it publicity. Might be good to get on the waiting list sooner than later, would not shock me if most facilities are booked a few years into the future.